[DriverFR]

Hi everyone

hope you all are doing well.

i have a question as I’m a new driver in UK.

I know that when red light or even yello light turn on we have to stop and not to cross line.

but here a case I’ve never encountered in France.

Traffic light was GREEN
I crossed the line and a car in front of me changed the lane and went in the lane I was driving.

so I had to stop in the middle of the junction

I thought that I should do a reverse to unblock the junction. But I have crossed the line of the traffic light when was red.

does it count as a driving offence ? Will I be prosecuted for it ?

thanks for your help.

[Beelzebub]

@DriverFRThe offence is that a vehicle "must not proceed beyond the stop line" when the lights show red or amber.

By reversing you are not proceeding, so no offence is committed.

[DriverFR]

thank you very much @Beelzebub

I forgot to mention that there are cameras in the road where this crossing happened.

Have I been caught by them ?? Will I be prosecuted in court even if there is no offence committed by crossing the red traffic light by going reverse ?


thanks

[Santa]

The traffic lights should not be a problem for you in this. The cameras are set to catch people who drive through a red light.

If there were yellow cross/hatch lined on the road, indicating a "box junction" then you may have needed to plead your case in court.

Rule 174

Box junctions. These have criss-cross yellow lines painted on the road (see ‘Road markings’). You MUST NOT enter the box until your exit road or lane is clear. However, you may enter the box and wait when you want to turn right, and are only stopped from doing so by oncoming traffic, or by other vehicles waiting to turn right. At signalled roundabouts you MUST NOT enter the box unless you can cross over it completely without stopping.
Law TSRGD schedule 9 parts 7 and 8

Rule 174: Enter a box junction only if your exit road is clear

[TC1474]

Failure to comply with a red traffic light (which includes amber as that is also a statutory stop sign) is contrary to Section 36(1) Road Traffic Act 1988

Technically the fact that you were over the line through no fault of your own when the light went read is sufficient to convict for the offence as the law requires you to stop behind the line.

However, it is unlikely that a camera would have been triggered unless it is CCTV and monitored by a person, but in any case you would have a statutory defence in the event that a FPN came through your door.

If you were seen by a copper over the line, then he could report you for the offence if he failed to see the reason why you stopped where you did, but any reasonable copper would/should give you the benefit of the doubt.

So don't lose any sleep over it, if you don't get the NIP through the door within the 14 days from the date this incident happened, you are in the clear anyway, if you do get the NIP, then contest it with your statutory defence.

[DriverFR]

@Santa thanks for your reply. It’s helping me to understand uk rules. But it seems not exactly what I’ve encountered.

[Rolebama]

Years ago I was being tailgated on approach to traffic lights which turned red. I did not think I could safely stop, and as the lights had only just changed, decided to carry on. I heard the tyres shriek on the car following as they tried to stop. I was pulled over a little further up the road by two PCs in a car. They said they had seen me jump the light, but only one had seen my reasoning. The other one decided to prosecute. The three of us gave our evidence in the Magistrates Court, where I was let off on the grounds that I had acted in the interest of my own safety. Around two weeks later, I went back to the Court to give evidence against the tailgater who was charged with Driving Without Due Care and attention. He got an endorsement and a £50 fine.
That was in the days when people counted, Before cameras. NIPs and FPNs and automated nonsense.

[DriverFR]

@TC1474

Thanks for your explanations. Unfortunately they have installed traffic lights cameras on the junction because there have been lot of accidents (over speeding and not complying to traffic lights.

So I will wait. But if I receive a NIP, it will have an impact on my migration status. That’s why I’m losing sleep over it. In France prosecution occurs only when injuries or death happened.

and the fact is I’m driving with my french driving licence. So if caught then court I will get a criminal record. My wife and my children (all British) are worried about it.

[Beelzebub]

1. The traffic light cameras are triggered when a vehicle passes over a sensor. They take two photos, to prove the vehicle was moving. In your case, it should be obvious that the car was reversing, so no offence committed.

2. Receiving a NIP doesn't have any impact on anything. It's just a notice telling you that action may be taken.

3. Even if you were to be prosecuted and found guilty, you do not get a criminal record for a minor motoring offence.

4. If a court awards points (for this or any other offence) they don't affect your French licence, but are recorded by the DVLA and are applied to any UK licence you get within the next four years.

[DriverFR]

@Beelzebub. Oh thank you so much for these clarifications. I’m really relieved .

👍

[TC1474]

Originally Posted by DriverFR

@TC1474

Thanks for your explanations. Unfortunately they have installed traffic lights cameras on the junction because there have been lot of accidents (over speeding and not complying to traffic lights.

So I will wait. But if I receive a NIP, it will have an impact on my migration status. That’s why I’m losing sleep over it. In France prosecution occurs only when injuries or death happened.

and the fact is I’m driving with my french driving licence. So if caught then court I will get a criminal record. My wife and my children (all British) are worried about it.

As already mentioned, an NIP is not a conviction for anything it is simply letting you know that consideration is being given as to whether to prosecute or not but sending out an NIP is procedural if they want to investigate further.

Failing to comply with a traffic signal (as already mentioned) is not a criminal offence. In relative terms there are only a few traffic offences that are criminal, so you do not end up with a criminal record unless you have been dealt with for something such as Dangerous driving, drink driving, driving whilst disqualified (just a couple of examples), so it has no bearing.

Bear in mind that once you decide to become resident, you have 12 months from the date you become resident to exchange your French licence for a UK one.

And lastly as also mentioned, as I said it is unlikely you will have been caught on a fixed traffic camera as they are in sinc with the lights and are only triggered when you go over the sensors as the lights change to amber. The fact that you were already over the line means that if there was a static camera operating it would not have been able to activate as you have not triggered it. It is only if it was CCTV operated by a Human operator is it likely to have any bearing but again as I have already said, you would have a statutory defence and the evidence is there to be seen.

With 45 years in traffic law enforcement and investigation, I have yet to see someone in your situation end up being prosecuted, so you really have no need to lose sleep, but even in worse case scenario it would have no bearing on your immigration status.