[marcs]

I actually have three mini roundabouts to ask about, I will start with just one.

I attach a picture link.

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...pshswrkbxb.png

The question is this, the highway code says that you should give way to the right at mini roundabouts and also to traffic already on the roundabout. Great easy.

What about when two cars are opposite each other and therefore both on each others right but one wants to go right, or both want to go right. (if they both went straight ahead it would be fine). There are double broken give way lines with a give way sign, on one side, so if the guy opposite me is turning right do I give way or does he (I suspect me but want to make sure) The other guy wanting to turn right has no give way sign and a single broken give way sign.

No one seems to know what to do on these even the police I asked, which is just bad.

This is the simplest of 3 mini roundabouts I have to ask about.

[Santa]

It is often a slight impasse in these situations, but usually someone will quickly break the deadlock. We have a similar one at the end of our road and I am always wary of the way others are approaching - their speed and their signals (or lack thereof). When in doubt, let the other guy go.

[James TT]

Originally Posted by Santa

It is often a slight impasse in these situations, but usually someone will quickly break the deadlock. We have a similar one at the end of our road and I am always wary of the way others are approaching - their speed and their signals (or lack thereof). When in doubt, let the other guy go.

Completely agree, and if you can make eye contact, that can help too.

[marcs]

Thanks. I do exactly that. Just wondering which legally had the right of way. I also have a roundabout where two opposite entrances have double white lines and one where two opposite entrances have single white lines.

[marcs]

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psezqexqjx.png

http://i1172.photobucket.com/albums/...psb0rz7rjn.png

[Beelzebub]

Santa is right.

I would add, from "Know Your Traffic Signs":

'The "give way" line at a mini-roundabout is a broad broken line, but sometimes the conventional double broken line with the upright "give-way" sign may be used. The "give way" triangle in the carriageway is sometimes used.'

In other words, these are all equally valid means of indicating that you must give way - all have equal priority.

The HC doesn't say you should give way "to the right", it says "to traffic approaching from the right". If someone has stoipped, is he approaching?

Finally, no-one ever has "right of way"". See page 34 of the HC.

[marcs]

So everyone has equal right of way? Well that sucks. So if three people are at the roundabout behind the lines, it's whoever pulls out first? If the person on my right is stopped and i pull out and he does at the same time surely i'm in the wrong as he was coming from my right even though I could argue that he wasn't approaching?

What I am looking for is a definitive black and white answer so I can understand who has right of way in every scenario. If that doesn't exist then mini roundabouts seriously need changing

[smudger]

Talking of eye contact, one of the times I was almost wiped out on that roundabout near us, we actually made eye contact, but the bloke just kept coming at me, it was like he was totally ignoring the dotted line on the roundabout!................It was unbelievable!

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by marcs

So everyone has equal right of way? Well that sucks. So if three people are at the roundabout behind the lines, it's whoever pulls out first? If the person on my right is stopped and i pull out and he does at the same time surely i'm in the wrong as he was coming from my right even though I could argue that he wasn't approaching?

What I am looking for is a definitive black and white answer so I can understand who has right of way in every scenario. If that doesn't exist then mini roundabouts seriously need changing

I think you've got a definitive black and white answer, it's just that you don't like it.

[marcs]

reply

Seems I do, of course I don't like it, it's crazy, would be nice to think if an accident did occur there was a definite right and wrong. Still find it hard to believe a system so flawed could be in place, there is really no difference between double white lines and single? Two cars opposite one another have equal right of way despite one side having double white lines and a give way sign and the other having single and no sign? If thats the case why not put no sign and the same lines on both sides?

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by marcs

Seems I do, of course I don't like it, it's crazy, would be nice to think if an accident did occur there was a definite right and wrong. Still find it hard to believe a system so flawed could be in place, there is really no difference between double white lines and single? Two cars opposite one another have equal right of way despite one side having double white lines and a give way sign and the other having single and no sign? If thats the case why not put no sign and the same lines on both sides?

The law, and common sense, requires us to obey the signs and road markings in front of us. Are you seriously suggesting that we should also be required to look for the road markings and signs on other roads? And guess the meaning of signs which are of course facing away from us?

The road markings and signs may differ, for various reasons, but their meaning is the same.

[Snowball]

If there is any doubt in my mind I always give way, whether I have priority or not. The overriding factor is NOT to be involved in an accident. Giving way is not a weakness - any weakness is in bullying one's way through on the basis that one has "the right of way", and then a collision resulting from it. This brings argument, time and trouble which lasts far longer than the milliseconds in letting the other fellow get out of your hair. A no-brainer, really.

[Santa]

Originally Posted by marcs

Seems I do, of course I don't like it, it's crazy, would be nice to think if an accident did occur there was a definite right and wrong. Still find it hard to believe a system so flawed could be in place, there is really no difference between double white lines and single? Two cars opposite one another have equal right of way despite one side having double white lines and a give way sign and the other having single and no sign? If thats the case why not put no sign and the same lines on both sides?

Ok, it isn't perfect. So what would your solution be for where three or four lightly used roads meet? Traffic lights are expensive and may cause extra pollution from the queuing cars; there is no room for a 'proper' roundabout and a simple junction with one road having priority has a history of accidents.

[marcs]

No ofc im not beelzebub. Yes i give way and of course i avoid accidents. Forgive me for assuming roads would have a regimented clear system rather than a pull out and see system. We should be more like america with this, everyone knows exactly who should go when, even their filtering systems make priority clear. I am uninterested in being scolded for assuming that something as important as a traffic system would have clear cut rules. A simple both sides have equal right of way/priority, both double and single lines mean the same thing would have sufficed.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by marcs

No ofc im not beelzebub. Yes i give way and of course i avoid accidents. Forgive me for assuming roads would have a regimented clear system rather than a pull out and see system. We should be more like america with this, everyone knows exactly who should go when, even their filtering systems make priority clear. I am uninterested in being scolded for assuming that something as important as a traffic system would have clear cut rules. A simple both sides have equal right of way/priority, both double and single lines mean the same thing would have sufficed.

The US historically has had few roundabouts, preferring four-way stop intersections, where no-one has priority. Like our mini-roundabouts, they seem to work in spite of this. However, they are much less efficient in terms of traffic flow.

In spite of a much lower traffic density, the US have an accident rate about twice that of the UK, so maybe their systems aren't the best example to copy.

[marcs]

Maybe it differs from state to state then, was excellent where I went. Thanks for all the replies. I am happy for this to be closed.

[Santa]

It very much does differ between states. Some allow filtering right through red lights for example while you would get a ticket for that in New York.