[Quilgy]

I'm interested to hear from owners or dealers of hybrid cars like the Prius about actually how much better/cleaner/greener they are than other types of cars.

What's the fuel economy and emmissions like on these as compared to a small engined diesel for instance?

[Petec]

Prius false fuel economy figures

I have had a Prius for just over a year. On the whole I like the car, but there are some issues – not least to do with fuel economy (or the lack of it).

My Prius does around 55mpg in the summer and around 50-52mpg in the winter. This is because unlike other cars, the Prius has to run the engine when it is cold to get things going. (In the summer, it will start OK off the hybrid battery)

I have checked other forums and these figures are pretty average (and indeed many never get it over 50mpg and I have never seen anyone claim to consistently get it above 60mpg). Therefore these are miles away from the claimed figures of 65mpg combined.

Personally I think there is possibly some sort of scam going on with these figures. I have asked the Vehicle Certification Agency for copies of the actual test data and they just can’t supply it and moreover they keep changing their story. One theory is that Toyota fully charged the battery before the official test and then let it drain during it. (The test was designed before hybrids, so does not cater for battery charge differences.)

Either way, the Prius does not deliver what it says on the can for economy and you might be better off getting a normal diesel, if that is purchase motivation. If it is to reduce emissions/environmental, there still could be an argument to buy. However beware high depreciation.

Hope that helps.

Pete

[Markyboy]

I would only have a hybrid if it offers me the same sort of driving experience of a normal car in terms of speed and acceleration. I would consider having one if it meant I did not have to compromise on looks, performance etc. Most hybrid cars look awful... look at the Prius! Yuk!;)

[barryk]

Hybrid cars

I read an interesting article last week were they compared the Carbon costs (CO2) of cars from built to decommissioning. No 1 (least Carbon) was a Jeep Wrangler. Some of the hybid cars are very eco unfriendly as they produce more carbon in the build and decommissioning (scrapping!) due to greater technical and material content. You may think you are an Ecowarriar but are you??

[Ghost Rider]

Interesting, I know of a 1.2 Nissan Micra that does an indicated 58mpg on good runs, seems they are not all that good on fuel consumption.

[Teabag]

It strikes me that hybrid cars are no more than over-priced environmental time bombs. I meen, what's going to happen to those big batteries when the car gets scrapped?

[Greenermachine.]

Seems like the Prius is more congestion tax buster than environment saver?

[306OWNER]

go Diesel

get something with a Small diesel engine like a 1.4 turbo diesel good MPG and only around £44 for a years road fund licence.
plus if you can do any kind of DIY mechanics you can still do some work to the vehicle I wouldnt wanna try and do anything to a Prius etc.:)

[sandycore2]

Most of the car manufacturers are building up greener versions of their famous brands. The invention of Hybrid technology has bought a major change in the field of motor cars, and the demands for these kinds of vehicles are also increasing day by day, because these vehicles are environment friendly and fuel efficient.

[Rolebama]

Personally, I would not buy any of the current crop of hybrids. They seem to have the worst of both worlds; poor performance and poor fuel economy. I also think they are ugly, although aesthetics don't seem to be an issue anymore. I am also not very happy about the insurance grouping. I accept there are people out there who are very happy with their choice, but I have yet to meet one. I think I could be tempted by an lpg conversion, if availabilty was not such an issue. (I would have a round trip of about 40 miles to top up with lpg)

[spanglerott]

are hybrid cars really better

i find the battery to start these vehicles to be of poor spec as we keeping having to jump start them and leave them connected to the van for at least 20 minutes to recharge the battery , when the engine is not running and under battery power the alternator for the starter and back up circuits is not running .
we attend a lot of breakdowns because of this issue .
but on the open road they have got a very good preformance when driven harder after you get use to them

[Rolebama]

Went for a drive in a new Honda Insight Saturday. Must admit to being quite impressed. I could do without some of the silly stuff you can display, (like growing trees), but on the instantaneous and average mpg displays, it began to make sense. When driving the engine does not appear to switch off, but it does when the vehicle stops for any reason. It has a charge/discharge display, and gentle braking is done by reverse wiring the drive motors to generators, as does any time on the over-run. Did around 45 miles mixed driving urban, main road and motorway. Hard acceleration was a little disappointing in performance, with instantaneous mpg showing less than 20mpg, but cruising at 30 - 40 showed 100mpg plus. It showed battery discharge/charge, but I couldn't find a display for the current state of charge. Batteries are warranted for 10yrs, and apparently Honda has only changed 5 since 1999 on the original Insight. Overall fuel consumption was 66mpg. Not bad when compared to the comfort level offered.

[wagolynn]

Was it possible to re-charge batteries from mains as well? Is it California that has banned them unless they can be charged from the mains on the grounds that in US style motoring hybrids do not help with the environment? I understand that Toyota have been doing the engine stop start thing for the Japanese market for years. Their market research says the other major markets do not like the idea of the engine stopping? I have, for as long as I can remember, turned off when waiting, though not for ‘normal’ traffic lights, in both private and work vehicles, the amusing thing is at least once per month someone will come and knock on the window to tell me my engine has stopped, they go away looking puzzled when I thank them and tell them I know. So perhaps their market research is correct.

[Rolebama]

I never thought to investigate mains charging. (I will find out and come back about this.) I can't say what state of charge the battery was in when we started, or when we finished, as there was no indicator. (At least, one that could be found. The menu system I felt did leave a lot to be desired.) I would guess it was reasonable though, as the engine only left tickover when it was in Sport mode, and that was only for a short time as I was curous as to how well it would perform. This was the only time I became aware of the weight of the car by the way.

[Loony]

Originally Posted by Petec

I have had a Prius for just over a year. On the whole I like the car, but there are some issues – not least to do with fuel economy (or the lack of it).

Either way, the Prius does not deliver what it says on the can for economy and you might be better off getting a normal diesel

Just put the title below into youtube and see the results....

Prius More Enviromentally Damaging Than BMW M3

Topgear drove a Prius around the track with a BMW M3 following.Which one used the most fuel?

[Rolebama]

The Top Gear stunt should be put into perspective. The idea was to drive the Prius as fast as they could around the track with the M3 just following. The Prius was not designed as a sports car, and fuel consumption was therefore appalling. So the M3 proved better on fuel consumption in that instance.

[wagolynn]

The Toyota appeared to hide the weight by using electric and IC power together. Though I only rode in one as passenger a few times. Certainly the mark 1 versions could only be charged by running the IC engine or KERS. In traffic it appeared to keep up OK and the control system electric/IC or both was not obtrusive.
California I think is trying to turn hybrids into electric cars with IC engines.
From what I have read of sensible practical tests the concept struggles to match say a modern diesel.
Williams engineering have the ultimate energy store a flywheel, they are marketing this technology for busses and Lorries.

[Loony]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

The Top Gear stunt should be put into perspective. The idea was to drive the Prius as fast as they could around the track with the M3 just following. The Prius was not designed as a sports car, and fuel consumption was therefore appalling. So the M3 proved better on fuel consumption in that instance.

Yes agree with you.However many of them are not driven around town only.Only today i was overtaken by one on the motorway that would have been using more fuel than mine yet my car would be looked upon as the least green.Then as has been said you have the issues related to the batteries.

[Rolebama]

That is part of the problem. Some people that buy them do not think in terms of how to get the best out of them and do not change their driving styles. They see them as a direct replacement for whatever car they had before. The battery doesn't last long at 70mph, and as it runs down the engine takes over. A relatively small engine thrashing away driving a reasonably heavy car. Same with the round-town, I see them getting involved in the Traffic Lights Grand Prix, flooring it from one set and standing on the brakes for the next, and I wonder why they bought them.

[wagolynn]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

That is part of the problem. Some people that buy them do not think in terms of how to get the best out of them and do not change their driving styles. They see them as a direct replacement for whatever car they had before. The battery doesn't last long at 70mph, and as it runs down the engine takes over. A relatively small engine thrashing away driving a reasonably heavy car. Same with the round-town, I see them getting involved in the Traffic Lights Grand Prix, flooring it from one set and standing on the brakes for the next, and I wonder why they bought them.

But then, can you see ‘rational’ and ‘motoring’ ever getting married?

[Rolebama]

Wagolynn, I can only refer you to a thread I started a while ago. It is relevant to the 'Are Some Drivers Too Stupid To Be Allowed A Driving License' article I read in the paper the day before.