[Marc D]

Various EU member states are introducing car scrappage schemes in an attempt to stimulate demand in the vehicle market.

We want to know what you think of the proposed scheme. Specific details have yet to be confirmed, but rumours about the scheme include the following:

• A £2000 discount off the price of a new car (up to 1 year old) if you scrap a vehicle over 9 years old
• Likely to be applicable ONLY for dealer sales rather than private car sales

So, what do you think of the proposed scheme? Do you think it will help the ailing motor industry? Are there any implications? Could you suggest a better solution?

Please let us know your views by posting your comments below.

[Benedict]

I think the industry needs every bit of help it can get and I know this would make a big deal to me and my friends over in France if it were to be implemented.

[ficklejade]

Whilst the motor industry needs all the help it can get, perhaps someone can enlighten me on the following points:

Are company cars being changed when they’re nine years old? They used to be changed every three years or less and whilst some companies are extending this, I’ve not heard of hanging onto the average company car for nine years. On this basis, the £2000 wouldn’t be much use.

Are hire car fleets going to wait nine years, given the use they get? On this basis, the £2000 wouldn’t be much use.

Is this then primarily targeted at the private motorist?

The private motorist is being so screwed both in motoring related costs and other taxes/ costs, one questions whether a £2000 incentive will be enough. It might work for the smaller vehicle market, but it’s going to be tough going for those that require a larger vehicle.

Will they restrict the £2000 scrap discount to certain models in the light of the general hysteria about MMGW (I am a climate change believer but am sceptical about a good bit of the science on MMGW)? This will damage Land Rover for example – wonder what the MoD might say about that? Not to mention those of use who use these vehicles off road and in rough conditions and/or (as in my own case) because I do off road volunteer work (not just rally marshalling but conservation jobs) but also because my vehicle is perfect for carrying a disabled parent.

It makes the assumption that people can afford a new vehicle. Many folks may have old cars and do little mileage and simply cannot afford to replace them.

Forgive me for being cynical, but won’t dealers (in business for profit) hike the price – if not of basic vehicle but of add-ons – to maximise their income? So how would this be regulated?

As the OP said, much of this is rumour. I would like to see facts before making a decision on this.

My car isn’t nine years old yet, so this wouldn’t be relevant to me, btw!

[Fionadilston]

so the scrapyards and landfils will be full and perfectly ok cars will be scrapped just because they are old and less efficient apparently.....maybe we should do that to the world's old people too ...more madness and waste

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by Fionadilston

so the scrapyards and landfils will be full and perfectly ok cars will be scrapped just because they are old and less efficient apparently.....maybe we should do that to the world's old people too ...more madness and waste

Fiona,

I have mentioned this under another thread. I agree that it would hardly be a sensible use of the world's diminishing resources, nor indeed justifiable under MMGW, to scrap perfectly reasonable cars simply on age. I should have included that in my comments above; I'm sorry.

I can sympathize with your analogy of old folks - I'm not of pensionable age - quite yet :rolleyes: - but I'm having to give up my job because I'm primary carer for one of them and the parking charges they're bringing in mean I can't get home at lunch to care for he needs - Social Services are great support but they've not the staff!

[Fisher]

This used to be a 'green' excuse for subsidising the multi-national car industry from British tax payer's pocket. Old cars would melt the ice cap and we would all drown.

It has now turned into a 'patriotic duty' to help keep multi-national car firms making more cars than the market requires - wasting manpower, material and energy to no purpose, except to line the pockets of shareholders in big business. How British is a British car? Where does the money for a new car really go?

The real fact of the matter is that the car industry has shot itself in the foot by making cars that last longer than really needed to keep the industry going - it has not seen that cars should now be disposable, just like toilet paper, and that the future of the industry depends on ensuring that all parts decay irreplaceably and simultaneously after 10 years like modern houses (which are also lasting too long, given the capacity of the building industry - would you really want to live in a second hand house?).

No one in his/her right mind would fall for this con trick. The ruthlessness of modern business has been clearly illustrated by the behaviour of the City and the Government who are only too happy to rob everyone in sight and this is just another example.

This proposal should be opposed by laughing it out of court. Are the fridge makers lumbered with stock? Yes - well let the taxpayer subsidise replacing all two year old fridges - and washing machines and computers and what else....?

But what happens when the taxpayer runs out of money and credit - let us bring in assisted suicide for free to all at the point of delivery (MRSA at no extra charge) so we can make room for the next generation of wage slave/consumers.

[Davescatt]

The £ 2000 carrot.

Originally Posted by Marc D

Various EU member states are introducing car scrappage schemes in an attempt to stimulate demand in the vehicle market.

We want to know what you think of the proposed scheme. Specific details have yet to be confirmed, but rumours about the scheme include the following:

• A £2000 discount off the price of a new car (up to 1 year old) if you scrap a vehicle over 9 years old
• Likely to be applicable ONLY for dealer sales rather than private car sales

So, what do you think of the proposed scheme? Do you think it will help the ailing motor industry? Are there any implications? Could you suggest a better solution?

Please let us know your views by posting your comments below.

what about the people on low wage and those not in work also the pensioners ,like myself. we can't just go out and buy a new car even if there is £2000 off.

[Fionadilston]

Well, my car is eighteen years old and my washing machine is about fourteen or fifteen both were bought second hand and both are perfectly fine and good
Car by dint of the quantity of recycled/donor parts on her now is very eco imho !!! Both of these were built to last and are continuing to lasting ...both are looked after and treated with respect ..I don't do disposable

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by Benedict

I think the industry needs every bit of help it can get and I know this would make a big deal to me and my friends over in France if it were to be implemented.

Benedict,

Would you like to expand on this - genuine query.
FJ

[Davescatt]

£2000 carrot.

Originally Posted by Marc D

Various EU member states are introducing car scrappage schemes in an attempt to stimulate demand in the vehicle market.

We want to know what you think of the proposed scheme. Specific details have yet to be confirmed, but rumours about the scheme include the following:

• A £2000 discount off the price of a new car (up to 1 year old) if you scrap a vehicle over 9 years old
• Likely to be applicable ONLY for dealer sales rather than private car sales

So, what do you think of the proposed scheme? Do you think it will help the ailing motor industry? Are there any implications? Could you suggest a better solution?

Please let us know your views by posting your comments below.

What about those low paid workers, those not in work, and the pensioners, like me. we can't go out and just buy a car even if was on the never never and with the £2000 off , I run around in a 1998 2000cc Mondeo estate, I need a big car as I need to run grandkids and their mates around. ( what I like doing ). I've always had bangers for 40 plus years because I could never afford to buy a new one, so with the £2000 off it would make no difference to me and thousands of other people.

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by Fionadilston

Well, my car is eighteen years old and my washing machine is about fourteen or fifteen both were bought second hand and both are perfectly fine and good
Car by dint of the quantity of recycled/donor parts on her now is very eco imho !!! Both of these were built to last and are continuing to lasting ...both are looked after and treated with respect ..I don't do disposable

Fraid my car isn't that old, but that was a change of circumstances; prior to that all my cars were second/third hand etc and kept going efficiently because cars were then much easier to work on oneself!

You've made a very valid point - equipment in the past was made to last - now you're lucky if it has a useful life past three years! I have two appliances that are now over 20 years old (both freezers)and using a savaplug are just as efficient as the modern ones on energy use. I can't even get a replacement cord cable for one product less than three years old.

I'm afraid what the world seriously lacks is the sense of if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Why chuck away perfectly good efficient machines (or people) simply because they've reached a certain age? Consumerism -certainly; the must have latest gadget - definitely and the me/greed society.

Maybe we should go back to the Henry Ford principle - cheap, fairly reliable - but you've got to be a good driver to survive :D!

[dtpima]

Non-starter

I run a 6-year old diesel (which does 60mpg on a decent run and at least 40mpg around town) and has cost me one (expensive!) injector and a (reasonably priced) radiator in the 3 years I've had it. It has 135,000 miles on the clock and, barring any unlucky failures, will do another 100,000 miles at least.
Why should it be scrapped?????::confused:

I have the utmost sympathy for car workers who have lost their jobs/put on short time/etc., but we can't afford - as a nation - to keep things going for the sake of it. If we had done that in the past Cornwall would have a flourishing tin-mining industry and, as for coal and steel......

Unfortunately it's now pay-back time for the ridiculous recent years: how many times have most of us said that house prices couldn't keep on reaching 'telephone number' proportions for much longer? That was just a symptom of the banker's greed - and now the rest of us - and our children and their children - are going to have to pay for it.

[Mash101uk]

Originally Posted by Fionadilston

Well, my car is eighteen years old
Car by dint of the quantity of recycled/donor parts on her now is very eco imho !!! Both of these were built to last and are continuing to lasting ...both are looked after and treated with respect ..I don't do disposable

Well said Fiona..What a load of old tosh this all is.. Mine own vehicle a LandRover is coming up for its 21st birthday..ok so it isn't the most fuel efficient vehicle about BUT in terms of recycling etc I make it far more eco friendly than a lot of the modern cars cos most of them wont last till they are 21 :)

[Fisher]

"Banker's greed" - We seem to have forgotten the thousands who told lies when self-certifying their mortgage applications and the bonus hungry agents who often conspired with them. And don't forget the lazy and convenient 'arm's length' approach to regulation that the Government adopted and which turned a blind eye to us all to be ripped off.

[DONFRAMAC]

£2000 towards a new car?

I think that this is just a charter for dealer profiteering, unless it applies to very low-cost run-arounds, as much as to large family cars, which can be "bargained" down by a couple of grand anyway, if you don't have a trade-in.
I would hope for the 2 to be additive, so that a tdi Focus gets cut to the price of the tdi 1.6 Fiesta, otherwise, it is simply not a true offer.
Those people running older cars will never be in a position to use this plan, including two car families using a banger for school-runs, and rural users where buses are not an option.
My own sister and husband run vehicles 'til they croak. They include an "S" reg Honda Insight, a "V" reg Rover 75 1.8, a current model Mercedes 220 cdti Est, and an old 4 cylinder Ford Scorpio Est.
Other company vehicles include an old Skoda pickup (re-named VW caddy), and a Mazda single-cab pick-up.
I don't think they would use the 7.5T truck for trips to town for a dinner-out.
None of these vehicles were bought new, and see a workshop only when essential.
( The Honda 2-seat hybrid was 1/2 price, ex-factory management, and was re-stocked within weeks ).

[Fionadilston]

Charter for dealer profiteering sums it up ...the green issue is readily twisted I think but buying more and not taking care of what we do have is what has got this country into the mess it is in. I could rant for hours as I am part womble !!!

[Marc D]

Hi Benedict,

Thanks for your post.

How likely are you take advantage of the new scheme if it was introduced? Do you think there are any downsides to it?

Marc

[agfagaevart]

Originally Posted by Fionadilston

so the scrapyards and landfils will be full and perfectly ok cars will be scrapped just because they are old and less efficient apparently.....maybe we should do that to the world's old people too ...more madness and waste

:D
That's one fantastically good point. Also, wasn't this government trying to discourage us from using cars and into public transport a while back? A bit of hipocracy here I think. And when you consider that a car depreciates as soon as you take delivery of the damn thing, a £2,000 incentive isn't much use. Another point well made, is that an old car can be quite reliable, easier and cheaper to repair as it doesn't have onboard computers to make life difficult even more...AND some of us just prefer older cars.

So I say, nip down to your local auction house, and pick up a good old second hand banger for just under a grand or so, and you'll have some cheapo motoring for a good while :D ;)

[Marc D]

Originally Posted by Mash101uk

Well said Fiona..What a load of old tosh this all is.. Mine own vehicle a LandRover is coming up for its 21st birthday..ok so it isn't the most fuel efficient vehicle about BUT in terms of recycling etc I make it far more eco friendly than a lot of the modern cars cos most of them wont last till they are 21 :)

Hi Mash101uk,

Do you think larger cash payments/discounts would make the scheme more attractive? Or do you think there are better solutions to the problem?

Marc

[Marc D]

Originally Posted by DONFRAMAC

I think that this is just a charter for dealer profiteering, unless it applies to very low-cost run-arounds, as much as to large family cars, which can be "bargained" down by a couple of grand anyway, if you don't have a trade-in.
I would hope for the 2 to be additive, so that a tdi Focus gets cut to the price of the tdi 1.6 Fiesta, otherwise, it is simply not a true offer.
Those people running older cars will never be in a position to use this plan, including two car families using a banger for school-runs, and rural users where buses are not an option.
My own sister and husband run vehicles 'til they croak. They include an "S" reg Honda Insight, a "V" reg Rover 75 1.8, a current model Mercedes 220 cdti Est, and an old 4 cylinder Ford Scorpio Est.
Other company vehicles include an old Skoda pickup (re-named VW caddy), and a Mazda single-cab pick-up.
I don't think they would use the 7.5T truck for trips to town for a dinner-out.
None of these vehicles were bought new, and see a workshop only when essential.
( The Honda 2-seat hybrid was 1/2 price, ex-factory management, and was re-stocked within weeks ).

What if the cash incentives to scrap your old car were increased? Would that make you interested in the scheme?

[Fisher]

I too have had two bangers since retiring - over twenty years. The present job, a Rover, is rusty but still all in one piece and the Honda engine seems like it will run for ever I paid £1300 for her - I get her serviced just before MOT and only tyres have needed attention just once. My mileage is less than 6k p.a. shopping only, but a necessity. She is a real car and seems likely to last for ever. Why should I have to pay the earth in road tax? And why should I ever want to by any other car so long as she runs safely and reliably?

As for buying a new car - don't, make me laugh! In my view anyone over 60 who buys a new car needs the head seen to. ****** the planet. I have saved all my life and am being robbed in order to support profligate spenders and people who have lied about their means when getting mortgages. And what's all this about a housing ladder - houses are for living in, not for speculation and trading up. Greedy ******* want to screw cash out of eveything. Well a lot of good it has done them. So why should I pay to keep the multi-national car industry in business making cars no one wants to buy?

I've had enough - I won't put up with it any more. You can guess where I think the Government should stick the taxpayers' £2000 up to.
If the RAC supports this crazed idea, I shall not renew my membership - that'll make them sit up!!

[gkitching]

Could be a good idea

The might be a good idea if it was allowed to work properly by the dealers. I work for a 1st tier automotive supplier 40% of our output went into Honda and 20% into Toyota, approx one third of our labour force has been made redundent, so any idea might work, but only if salespeople dont get greedy. My last company had a deal with Fiat for a 10% discount on new cars, so you go into the dealer and strike a deal for him to take your old car and sell you a new one, then you hand them the ticket that says Fiat will pay them 10% of the purchase price. The deal is off, they want the 10%. I can see that dealers will want most of the government money as part of the deal and it will not benefit the customer. Unless the customer gets the money knocked off the price then why put the money in the dealers pocket

[Marc D]

Originally Posted by ficklejade

Whilst the motor industry needs all the help it can get, perhaps someone can enlighten me on the following points:

Are company cars being changed when they’re nine years old? They used to be changed every three years or less and whilst some companies are extending this, I’ve not heard of hanging onto the average company car for nine years. On this basis, the £2000 wouldn’t be much use.

Are hire car fleets going to wait nine years, given the use they get? On this basis, the £2000 wouldn’t be much use.

Is this then primarily targeted at the private motorist?

The private motorist is being so screwed both in motoring related costs and other taxes/ costs, one questions whether a £2000 incentive will be enough. It might work for the smaller vehicle market, but it’s going to be tough going for those that require a larger vehicle.

Will they restrict the £2000 scrap discount to certain models in the light of the general hysteria about MMGW (I am a climate change believer but am sceptical about a good bit of the science on MMGW)? This will damage Land Rover for example – wonder what the MoD might say about that? Not to mention those of use who use these vehicles off road and in rough conditions and/or (as in my own case) because I do off road volunteer work (not just rally marshalling but conservation jobs) but also because my vehicle is perfect for carrying a disabled parent.

It makes the assumption that people can afford a new vehicle. Many folks may have old cars and do little mileage and simply cannot afford to replace them.

Forgive me for being cynical, but won’t dealers (in business for profit) hike the price – if not of basic vehicle but of add-ons – to maximise their income? So how would this be regulated?

As the OP said, much of this is rumour. I would like to see facts before making a decision on this.

My car isn’t nine years old yet, so this wouldn’t be relevant to me, btw!

Hi ficklejade,

What if the cash incentives to take part in the scheme were increased? Do you think the scheme would appeal to a wider audience then? What would make it an attractive offer for you?

Marc

[DONFRAMAC]

Now that I am drawing my ocupational pension, my 6-month old MK 6 Fiesta, will be run until it is a liability, then P/Ex for a second-hand, ex-demo, with warranty.
My wife retired 3 1/2 years ago and promptly downsized from a Corolla to an Aygo, and renewed the Aygo 2 months ago.
Since '94 all my cars have been new, with catalysts, and were fully serviced. I will be continuing to look after the emissions aspects of my cars, but only because poor running will occur if I neglect them, -- the lambda sensor prior to the "cat" cannot be allowed to get sooted or wet with fuel, as that can result in a destroyed "cat", rapidly.
Even £2000 in cash would not entice me to buy another new car, but I have to have something very dependable, -- that means a small Ford or Vauxhall in this county, due to isolation from other dealerships.

[gareth lynch]

I think it should be increased to £4000 for hybrid vehicles that can make a vast improvement to climate and health.For to long the british public have been ripped off compared to some countries.

[ficklejade]

Hi Marc D

If the cash back offer increased, it might attract a wider audience, i.e. those who have been running older cars and who have some money for a new model and need to change their vehicle for (say) family circumstances – whether up- or down-sizing or possibly where they want to take advantage of improved fuel consumption/less VED. It might also prove attractive to those who may have had a company car and their firm is cutting back so this won’t be provided in future.

I can’t really see it helping a great deal for the low paid and pensioners who are scraping a miserable existence with Council Tax, services bills, fuel and food, in particular, increasing in price. (59p for own brand baked beans, anyone?) The advantage of older cars is that they are cheaper to work on, whether yourself or at a garage – as others have said. Therefore, if you need a vehicle and have insufficient funds to raise the price (allowing for the cash back), you’ll keep your older car going.

Where I believe there is going to be a problem is that £2000 is a significant amount off a car costing £8000, it is peanuts if the model you need (note, need) is £18,000. This would not help the likes of Land Rover for example that is in difficulties or other 4x4 manufacturers yet, it is a simple fact that, whilst these are not urban vehicles, there’s many who use them properly in the course of daily life and this does not necessarily mean people with a lot of money!

Personally, my car is five years old and just hit 35000 miles. It’s converted to LPG and is ideal for my disabled Mum to get into/out of, plus it serves as a workhorse for my hobby, my volunteer work and the odd camping weekend with son, friends and dog! Under the proposals, I wouldn’t be eligible. It would therefore require something drastic – if this scheme continued for another four years – to make me change and I’d still need a 4x4 off roader if I was to get any enjoyment out of my life. I don’t want to sound harsh and selfish and love my Mum to bits but, having been a carer for 12 years, these do offer me some special time for myself.

FJ

[ficklejade]

Given Gareth's comment on hybrids, if this was in any way used to "force" people into buying say an electric car for example, may I simply point out that, even if one was going for a smaller car, the availability of "fill-up" points etc. would equate to a stealth tax on existing motorists. Has anyone had a look at the availability of lpg in Scotland? Where in the Highlands can you plug in your electric car (that's assuming the thing can do a trip of 60 miles plus)?

[smudger]

All these hybrid and Hydrogen cars that have been shown on Top Gear, all seems to disappear into the background? I think the oil companies are buying up all the Patents, or blocking them is some way?
They don't want the competition and want us all to rely on oil. Yet, the time will come when the oil does run out, they we will need this technology!
Cheers, Smudger.

[Rolebama]

Just one further point to this scheme, if it is introduced. I have no doubt that the money is coming from public coffers, and I would rather the money be spent elsewhere.

[Rolebama]

I only caught the end of it, but I am sure that last night I heard a new Citroen ad on TV, (Channel 5), where the voice-over mentioned a further reduction of £2000 for scrapping your car. (I'd got up to put the kettle on, so only heard it.)