[Snowball]

On another website, camping and caravanning orientated, someone introduced a thread suggesting that caravanners waved to each other on the road.
I responded in the vein that this would be an irresponsible and dangerous practice.
Most of the posters then ridiculed me with comments like "lighten up" and such.
To make matters worse, the moderator started to remove my posts, yet retained those deriding me.
Now, this site has several forums, including ones for trivia and general chat.
But this thread was on the caravan forum, where you would expect a degree of sober conversation.
The stupid thing is, I am now wondering if I wrong to remonstrate regarding the subject matter in the thread, and not pointed out the dangers if people did start this practice.

[Watcher]

Waving!

Originally Posted by Snowball

On another website, camping and caravanning orientated, someone introduced a thread suggesting that caravanners waved to each other on the road.
I responded in the vein that this would be an irresponsible and dangerous practice.
Most of the posters then ridiculed me with comments like "lighten up" and such.
To make matters worse, the moderator started to remove my posts, yet retained those deriding me.
Now, this site has several forums, including ones for trivia and general chat.
But this thread was on the caravan forum, where you would expect a degree of sober conversation.
The stupid thing is, I am now wondering if I wrong to remonstrate regarding the subject matter in the thread, and not pointed out the dangers if people did start this practice.

It used to be very common for LandRover drivers (proper ones, not those poncy little ones) to greet each other by extending the finger of one hand while maintaining a grip on the steering wheel. As I no longer drive one I cannot confirm whether this civilised habit continues.;)

[Rolebama]

Over the years, I have seen this 'habit' with a number of marques and models. Can't say I disapprove, as, if nothing else, it proves the drivers are paying some attention to what is going on around them.

[MrDanno]

I can't really see a problem with it myself. It is no different to letting go of the steering wheel to change gear in a manual transmission car.

How far do we go? you could say it is dangerous to talk to a passenger while driving or it is dangerous to look at the speedometer?

I think we really don't need any more 'nanny state' type guidance, We already have enough.

[Snowball]

I understand what is being said, and I appreciate that I may seem a bit OTT, but my reason is based on an incident a few years ago.
We used to have motorhomes, and it was the practice to wave to each other. Usually, it was passenger-to-passenger, but I have seen drivers wave too.
We were travelling down the M5, and another motorhome was some way in front. Someone in a motorhome coming in the opposite direction waved. I presume those in front of us waved too; but I could not see them from the back of the vehicle.
At that moment, a lorry pulled out of the nearside lane, right in front of the motorhome, and it very nearly resulted in an accident. We never waved to other motorhomers again.

My point with a caravan is that this basically a compromise for an articulated vehicle. An unnecessary distraction, coupled with a wobble of the van, could send it out of control. I am not saying it would definitely happen, but is it worth taking a risk for what is really a pointless gesture; and one that may not even be acknowledged? On site, or parked, I will be as friendly as anyone, but they will never get a wave when I am on the move. However unintentional, as with the case we witnessed, there is no way of being certain, until after the event, that a wave was given at the worst possible moment.
For my part, I would not wish to think I had contributed to another driver having an accident because of a misguided act of friendship.
I am sorry if this view is seen as being unsociable.

[Lew1275]

As i drive a mini, almost all other mini's i see on the road we give a gesture too. Just a mini thing! A lot of the time I will tend to flash them though as it's noticed more than waving through a windscreen that might be giving off a lot of reflection :D

You see it done with bus drivers in town, taxi drivers, truckers and camper/caravaners.

Really the gesture is no different in practice than saying thankyou to someone who has waited for you to pass some stationary cars or has let you out of a junction so I could say the risk is minimal..most people will still have their palm on the wheel.:rolleyes:

[Tony Aston]

The biggest problem with waving and especially flashing of lights is one of mis interpretation. You see a 'friend' and gesture / flash to them and another vehicle turning or in a side road or a pedestrian wanting to cross the road or whatever, interprets your gesture as being for them!
Thus the creation of confusion.

Tony

[Steve M]

Motorcyclists (or, "Bikers" to use the vernacular) generally acknowledge each other. As, for most bikes, the right hand operates the front brake / accelerator and the left the clutch / indicators, as well as the need to actually steer the bike, the usual acknowledgement is a nod of the head.

Thanks to motorists on allowing space for overtakes, for example, will be a small wave with the left hand. On the continent, as the overtaken wil be on the right, the gesture will be a wave with the rider's foot (a kind of "flapping in the wind" gesture). I have recently adopted the continental approach as it keeps my hands on the bike's main controls (and before anyone points out that i'm relinquishing control of my rear brake, I should point out I ride a VFR800 .. Linked brakes!)

My concern, though, lays with how much time is spent actually looking away from the road ahead to see if you're acknowledged. This could be up to one second (or 31 metres at 70mph), so I only do the nod if the road's clear for both myself and the other rider(s).

[RoverV6]

Misunderstood intentions

Qoute
The biggest problem with waving and especially flashing of lights is one of mis interpretation. You see a 'friend' and gesture / flash to them and another vehicle turning or in a side road or a pedestrian wanting to cross the road or whatever, interprets your gesture as being for them!
Thus the creation of confusion.

Tony

I totally agree with you here Tony. Last week I flashed a chap on the M5 to come out from behind slow moving lorries, and another chap in the outside lane thought I meant it was clear for him to pull into my lane. The two nearly collided. My fault entirely, I should have not done it. Luckily they didn't collide. I was thanked by both, possibly they were oblivious to what could have happened.

[Arewethereyet?]

Sounds familiar!!!!

Originally Posted by Snowball

To make matters worse, the moderator started to remove my posts, yet retained those deriding me.

I seem to remember this happening on this very forum!!!

[ficklejade]

Heavens! Don't come to Mull folks, if you don't like gestures! :)

Apart from the notorious occupants of one village who madly wave at everyone they know, virtually everyone acknowledges another driver - but that's just common courtesy on STRs. The only problem is that, due to the risk of falling into a large pothole or even having the road edge give way under you, the gesture has been largely reduced to a single finger; this is sadly open to serious mis-interpretation ;)!

I tend not to flash lights on two ways as it is open to misinterpretation as has been said, but do use the left/right/left indicator quick flashes to say thank you if I've been told clear to pull in when overtaking and do same for overtaking vehicles if on nearside lane of m-way or dual carriageway and it's a big vehicle. Sensible courtesies can make driving so much more pleasant!

[Snowball]

To pursue Tony's comments, we have just recently returned from a Yorkshire holiday.
Whilst in Northallerton, I stopped in the busy main street and flashed a Range Rover to turn right across my front. After his manoeuvre he had to stop just inside the turning. Traffic ahead of me was clearing and I proceeded forwards. Then a man pushing an elderly lady in a wheelchair suddenly appeared from the blind side of the Range Rover. Luckily, as I was going very slowly, I stopped immediately and signalled the man to carry on crossing. He looked puzzled and a little annoyed, and I realised that, although he was not near the kerb when I flashed my lights, he had assumed that I was signalling him. There was no real fault on anyone's part, but their was a potential for an unpleasant outcome.

[Tony Aston]

Snowball,
your quote "There was no real fault on anyone's part" is not an excuse for 'Red Mist'.

The wheelchair should have been crossing at an approved crossing
You should not have signalled

Red Mist is a term used for concentrating or thinking about 1 situation to the detriment of all other conditions.

The post by ficklejade also emphasises this point.

My guidance is NOT to signal but let others make that choice. These posts indicate the misinterpretation of unofficial signals

Tony

Tony

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by Tony Aston

Snowball,
your quote "There was no real fault on anyone's part" is not an excuse for 'Red Mist'.

The wheelchair should have been crossing at an approved crossing
You should not have signalled

Red Mist is a term used for concentrating or thinking about 1 situation to the detriment of all other conditions.
The post by ficklejade also emphasises this point.

My guidance is NOT to signal but let others make that choice. These posts indicate the misinterpretation of unofficial signals

Tony

Tony

Not quite true. I was moving slowly because of the congested conditions, and was certainly not thinking of the Range Rover; that had gone past my need for concern. The man with the wheelchair was never in any danger. I was simply indicating how signals can be misunderstood, and the ned to use them reservedly.

I still waited for the man to cross. I always give precedence for disabled people when ever it is safe to do so. I have even stopped the traffic and left my vehicle to get a blind person safely across the road, and I make no apology for delaying other traffic in the process.

[ficklejade]

Tony - thanks for enlightening me on the "red mist" term - never heard of it before.

I'll try and be as courteous as Snowball - especially as where I normally drive pedestrian crossings don't exist - but am very wary about signalling - too many ignorant folks ready to have a go nowadays - sadly:(.

[Tony Aston]

Snowball,
First of all, I mean no criticism nor offence and this is for general discussion.

When I mentioned Red Mist it was in relation to the comment that you made when you flashed the Range Rover - your concentration was on the Range Rover and perhaps did not cover other aspects for example the wheelchair. Had the Range Rover had a clear exit, the whole situation would have been different. As I say to my Associates - hindsight is great!

Like you said regarding allowing time for the wheelchair to cross, I too have patience and when safe and appropriate, allow plenty of time and space.

The important thing about this is the open discussion and just highlighting the extreme caution required before signalling, be it flash or wave of the hand. If I wanted to allow pedestrians or cars to cross or manouvre, I always stay back and do not signal - let them take the initiative for which would I hope to be totally prepared.

Most of all - be safe.

Tony

[Snowball]

I understand your view, Tony. However, I would hate to think that I was only capable of considering one circumstance at a time, relative to all that was going on around me. With experience, I believe that all driver (should) simultaneously assimilate awareness of all other activities in their immediate surroundings.

On the subject of just waiting for someone to cross into my path at their own volition, without ANY signal from the driver, is not a risk that I would take.
I would agree that a hand signal is far more suitable than flashing one's lights, because it gives greater significance as to whom you are specifically waiting for.

Regards, Snowball.

[dazid1]

As a biker a nod of the head is the usual response, driving my Landrover usually gets a wave and, of late I have purchased a Talbot camper and that seems to get a wave from similar vehicles.

[doctor daniel]

if you was not comforable waving to other drivers you would not do it i'm i right?

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by doctor daniel

if you was not comforable waving to other drivers you would not do it i'm i right?

Funny how this subject has raised its head again.
My honest answer, doctor daniel, is that you don't just yourself have to be comfortable with the action; what about the distraction factor for those around you?

It is a fact that, if a driver waved unnecessarily to another vehicle or person on the public highway, and it resulted in an RTC that was reliably witnessed, the waving driver would almost certainly end up in court; the charge probably be for driving without due care and attention.

Not so long ago, it was reported in the media that a driver, waiting behind a police car that was at the mouth of a junction, tooted on his horn because he thought the police driver had not noticed that the road was clear. The driver who hooted was prosecuted.
This gives some idea of how the law views the distraction practice.

Years ago, the AA patrolmen were stopped from saluting members because of the increasing risks of an incident. As a member at the time, I was a little disappointed that saluting was stopped, but I can now appreciate the commonsense behind it, because the combination of impatience and even greater congestion has significantly reduced the margins for error.

I am not prerared to argue the point; I just do not wave or draw attention unless it is in the interests of safety. What others do is up to them; I just hope none of the "friendly gestures" result in someone being hurt.

Rgards, Snowball.

[bullitt]

Waving

I teach Police Drivers (and other emergency services) to wave to say thankyou to drivers who are courteous. In todays world the road space is becoming increasingly cramped and only by cooperative use of this roadspace can we expect to continue our journeys smoothly. As long as it is not dangerous and safety being the priority I see nothing wrong with one of the hands that are in the ten to two position being relaxed and showing four fingers palm toward the other driver whist the thumb remains on the wheel. Indeed does not the bible of driving Roadcraft state cortesy signals should be encouraged as they promote cooperative use of the Roadspace.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by bullitt

I teach Police Drivers (and other emergency services) to wave to say thankyou to drivers who are courteous. In todays world the road space is becoming increasingly cramped and only by cooperative use of this roadspace can we expect to continue our journeys smoothly. As long as it is not dangerous and safety being the priority I see nothing wrong with one of the hands that are in the ten to two position being relaxed and showing four fingers palm toward the other driver whist the thumb remains on the wheel. Indeed does not the bible of driving Roadcraft state cortesy signals should be encouraged as they promote cooperative use of the Roadspace.

Bullitt, I do just this on a regular basis; but I don't think it is distractive waving in the context of the original topic. Also, if an act of courtesy has taken place, the giver and receiver are at that split second in direct visual contact, therefore no distraction has occurred as the "thankyou" signal is usually anticipated.

As for courtesy, yes, I think it is great, and there should be much more of it.
One thing I do regularly, and occasionally get a toot of annoyance for, is that I give way to bus drivers waiting to make a turn, and when signalling to pull away from bus stops. These drivers have schedules to maintain, and it does no harm to help them. Many don't seem to share my opinion, though.

[smudger]

Yea! and its always nice when another driver gives you a wave to acknowledge if they have made a mistake, It saves a lot of pent up anger and help cuts out road rage.
Of course that goes both ways;)

It can make all the difference when you meet a polite driver, so it doesn't do any harm to acknowledge that:cool:

[misterp]

Subaru Impreza drivers acknowledge one another by raising one finger and occasionally a nod of the head. At all times it is possible to keep both hands on the wheel and keep in full control of the car.
If someone can't raise one finger while driving a vehicle for fear of not concentrating fully on the driving, I think the question whether they are fit to be driving needs to be asked.

[RoverDriver]

i drive a rover 216 and us rover 216 drivers always wave at each other. i believe the standard wave is left arm fully extended through the sunroof with an open, wavey palm. kind of a single 'jazz hand'.

it makes us rover drivers feel part of a special club but we never EVER EVER discuss it when there are drivers of other makes and models around.

[Ramel]

Waving

In the areas where there are passing places a finger raised from the wheel shows "Thank You" when you are let through.Just manners.