[mmmmm]

When driving a lorry it seems I might have reversed and hit/touched a concrete bollard on a private (non council owned) road/industrial units. This incident unkown to me as I'm in a lorry and did not feel such a small impact. I continued on my way. 1 month later a letter from the police arrived trying to charge me with, not reporting an accident, failure to stop at an accident and driving with undue car and attention. Is there any advice, also does it make a diffeence that I was on a private road.

[tommytwotanks]

hi, welcome to the site

i will start by saying that i thought you only had to report an accident to the police if someone is hurt, turning the subject slightly, they always seem to put up notices on private land saying vehicles are left at owners risk, claiming any accident is nothing to do with them, so why are the police involved, have you been caught on cctv, or is someone telling tales, maybe the business owner

tommy :D

[MrDanno]

You would know if you hit it, Regardless of how big the vehicle your driving is.

[Hometune]

Under Section 25 Road Traffic Act etc etc it has to be on a public road. That is one defined as, 'repairable at public expense.'
If the police are involved the industrial estate road must have been adopted by the council. If there are street lights, almost certainly a public road. Check that first with the land registry office at the council concerned. Info is free.
A damage only accident is just the same as an injury one with the same reporting restrictions:- 'as soon as is reasonably practical and in any case within 24 hours.'
A defence to the charge is that the damage was so slight, your vehicle was so large that you were unaware of the accident. It is defined as, 'an unintended occurrence with an adverse physical result.'

Google - pepipoo - for advice.

[smudger]

Originally Posted by MrDanno

You would know if you hit it, Regardless of how big the vehicle your driving is.

If it was was one of them smaller ones and he hit it while reversing slowly, on a big rig I don't think he would have felt or heard it, as it could have just been pushed over. Remember some of them trailers are 40 feet long so the driver is a fair bit away.
Cheers, Smudger

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by smudger879n

If it was was one of them smaller ones and he hit it while reversing slowly, on a big rig I don't think he would have felt or heard it, as it could have just been pushed over. Remember some of them trailers are 40 feet long so the driver is a fair bit away.
Cheers, Smudger

I've had a class 1 licence for many year ;) you would be surprised how much you can feel even when your fully freighted.

[smudger]

Well, you will have a better idea then;)
I once did exactly the same thing while reversing a bus, and never even knew I had hit it?

The rear bumper came to rest on the bollard right as I stopped, then when I carried on reversing, it simply pushed the 3 foot high concrete bollard over on its side.

The funny thing was, that I stopped to wipe the drivers door mirror so that I could see better:rolleyes:
Cheers, Smudger.

[mills705]

I work for a supermarket and I have seen some of the drivers of the wagons not know that they are hitting the pillars that help guide them onto the loading bay!
I think it could just be the speed or watever but Im sure that there are some instances where you are unable to feel it.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by Hometune

Under Section 25 Road Traffic Act etc etc it has to be on a public road. That is one defined as, 'repairable at public expense.'
If the police are involved the industrial estate road must have been adopted by the council. If there are street lights, almost certainly a public road. Check that first with the land registry office at the council concerned. Info is free.
A damage only accident is just the same as an injury one with the same reporting restrictions:- 'as soon as is reasonably practical and in any case within 24 hours.'
A defence to the charge is that the damage was so slight, your vehicle was so large that you were unaware of the accident. It is defined as, 'an unintended occurrence with an adverse physical result.'

Google - pepipoo - for advice.

Public road does not mean only roads that are maintained by the local council. My wife and daughter were parking at a local farm park carpark, when a nearby car struck another parked vehicle. This vehicle then drove awawy, and our daughter took down the car details which she tucked behind the wiper of the damaged car.
She and my wife were later asked by the police to make a witness statement, and the driver was eventually prosecuted.

Where an accident is only to property and no personal injuries are involved, the incident does not have to be reported to the police if details have been given to the third party.

[Hometune]

Yes Snowball, I should have made clear a public road or where the public has access. In this case we don't know for sure if the estate is private and therefore, only people having business on it are allowed. If there are signs at the entrance saying 'private - no entry' then it must be considered a non-public place. However, if one of the businesses has a counter where they sell to the public, this would be a different matter.
This area is very complex and I can see many instances of case law where the higher courts have to decide the issues.

[Loony]

Originally Posted by Hometune

Yes Snowball, I should have made clear a public road or where the public has access. In this case we don't know for sure if the estate is private and therefore, only people having business on it are allowed. If there are signs at the entrance saying 'private - no entry' then it must be considered a non-public place. However, if one of the businesses has a counter where they sell to the public, this would be a different matter.
This area is very complex and I can see many instances of case law where the higher courts have to decide the issues.

It needs to have a gate to prevent the public having access.

[Rolebama]

I know of three gated roads. One is access to Moor Park. You can enter and exit the estate from one side, but to pass through, you have to ask for the gate to be opened. This is to keep the estate from becoming public access. There is another in Northwood, which is at one end of a road, and again it is to stop the road from becoming public access. The same with one in Harrow. When I was in the Army at Bovington, we also had to barricade for one day of the year for the same reason.

[stuartex]

danno

got to agree with danno , i have been hgv for twenty years you would have felt it , but just a reminder if you aint sure whats behind you mate your supposed to get out and look ha ha good luck with it , oh and unless you spend huge amount on lawyers youl prob get done
cheers

[Steve Williams]

The offence is committed on a road or public place, publice place is somewhere where the public ordinarily have access. This would be classed as a public place.

It is a defence that you weren't aware of the accident and namy cases like this involving lorry drivers are won because the prosecution have to prove you were aware of the accident. I would say you have a decent run on this and should consult a solicitor for advice - it wouldn't cost too much to got to trial and if you win you are entitled to your costs back.

[Qhunter]

Some of the tat that gets spouted by the mess room lawyers in here is frightening.

1. The 1991 Road Traffic Act brought in huge rafts of changes including where the RTA could be applied. Since 91 the RTA applied to public roads and anywhere to which the public have access either with or without a charge being made. This usually includes ports, supermarket carparks and private industrial estates etc etc

2. The offences being dealt with here will be driving without due care and failing to stop/failing to report an accident.

3. There is a defence in law to the offence of fail to stop and report to the effect that you can't stop and report an accident if you didn't know you'd been involved in one. That doesn't deal with the due care charge though.

4. The process of prosecution for RTA offences nearly always starts with a notice of intended prosecution. This can be issue verbally (by a policeman at the scene telling you that you are being reported for any offences that have come to light) or by post. If issued by post the NIP must be issued within 14days of the offence. They do have a defence to failing to meet the 14day rule if they can show they were making reasonable efforts to identify the driver of the vehicle.

Go see a solicitor. He should be able to shoot this one down in flames easily enough.