[babybean]

We bought a second hand Land Rover Discovery 2 months ago from a second hand car dealer, he offered us a warranty from a company called WMS, he said he doesn't make anything on it, he offered it to us for what he would pay (£150 for the 4 star policy) and we paid WMS direct. He assured us it would be woth it for the peace of mind. Now we have found out that the steering box is knackered, our mechanic says there is a lot of 'play' in it and it is leeking oil. According to WMS this is 'general wear and tear' and so we are not covered. Do we have any rights with the dealer? Does the fact that we bought a 12 month warranty from WMS mean that he now has no come back if the car is faulty?
Any advie would be gratefully received...
Many thanks!:confused:

[Rolebama]

Check with Trading Standards Office, but as far as I am aware, you have a three month warranty from the dealer, and a faulty steering box should definitely be covered by the dealer. Most of them start the third-party warranty from the date of sale and use this as an excuse not to do anything themselves. The extended should start three months after the date of sale.

[smudger]

Welcome to the site babybean, pity about your problem though, but as Rolebama has said, contact the consumer rights people. You can start this by contacting your local CAB office, they will be able to give you more help with that.
You can find the CAB office number in your loacl phone directory, good luck.
Cheers, Smudger.

[saloon drifter]

I have been through this with a neighbour and the bottom line is the trader does not have to give any warranty at all, but the car must be fit for purpose, as the problem is wear and tear you can have a word with him but legally he doesn't have to do anything.

[Rolebama]

Sorry to have to tell you your neighbour is wrong. You have a warranty on any car bought from a dealer. You cannot even, in law, sign it away. This was introduced in comsumer law back in the 70s, and has never been repealed. It was introduced to stop dodgy dealers duping members of the public into thinking they have no warranty.

[roxy80]

Hi i have a similar problem. I brought a Vauxhall Astra from a dealership near me on 3/9/11 it was a part ex and they sold it to me as a trade sale and sold as seen. In the begining to middle of october the ECU has gone. Do i have any rights with the dealership in asking about a warrenty as they say no?

[smudger]

Quote.."it was a part ex and they sold it to me as a trade sale and sold as seen."

Thats not true, contact these people, on the link below, they will keep you right, good luck.
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governme...ghts/index.htm

[wagolynn]

Is it three or six months?

[adesharp]

Lawgistics site says warranty does not have to be offered

Originally Posted by Rolebama

Sorry to have to tell you your neighbour is wrong. You have a warranty on any car bought from a dealer. You cannot even, in law, sign it away. This was introduced in comsumer law back in the 70s, and has never been repealed. It was introduced to stop dodgy dealers duping members of the public into thinking they have no warranty.

on this url http://www.lawgistics.co.uk/used-car...cond-hand-cars it says in fifth paragraph " Although warranties do not have to be offered Lawgistics recommend car dealers provide customers with something in writing (dealer guarantee, claims procedure or simple terms and conditions). This can help manage difficult customers and stop unsubstantiated claims "

My question therefore being who is right, the RAC or the Lawgistic site?


Regards

Ade Sharp

[Rolebama]

The law is right, and the law says you have a warranty on any second hand car bought from a dealer. It is quite true that they do not have to be 'offered' as it is given by law and there is no way a dealer can opt out of this situation.

[Santa]

It is six months:

Under the Sale of Goods Act and Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumer Regulations
Refunds

If a car is defective, unsafe or otherwise doesn't conform to its description, the Sale of Goods Act and the Sale and Supply of Goods to Consumers Regulations (SOGA/SSGCR) give you rights across Europe to a refund, particularly if the fault occurs soon after buying, but also if there are problems a bit later on and there are unreasonable delays in getting the vehicle repaired or replaced. It's still best to complain about problems as soon as possible.

Repair and replacement

When you buy a defective car, repairs must not cause you significant inconvenience and the seller must bear all the costs. You can require the seller to reduce the purchase price if repairs or other remedies are unrealistic in a reasonable period of time.
Note that if you buy through an auction that you have – or could have – attended in person, your rights to refunds, repairs and replacements are more limited. These limitations don't apply to internet and telephone auctions.

Warranties and guarantees

After any warranty or guarantee period, or after six months, you might have to prove that any defect existed before you purchased. Guarantees are transferable to subsequent buyers.

[Loony]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

The law is right, and the law says you have a warranty on any second hand car bought from a dealer. It is quite true that they do not have to be 'offered' as it is given by law and there is no way a dealer can opt out of this situation.

Its not a warranty,its your legal rights.

As I understand it the below applies (I do not have time to check this)

If a fault appears within 6 months the onus is on the dealer to prove that fault was not there when sold.
After 6 months its upto the buyer to prove it was there.

[Rolebama]

Loony, I would argue that it is a warranty. Especially after reading Santa's post above. The way I see it, it is a legally enforceable warranty.

[Dennis W]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

The law is right, and the law says you have a warranty on any second hand car bought from a dealer. It is quite true that they do not have to be 'offered' as it is given by law and there is no way a dealer can opt out of this situation.

If one buys a Government surplus vehicle direct from the Governments agent then in that case the vehicles are usually sold expressly with NO warranty.

[smudger]

Some car auctions have a "sold as seen" clause, which of course means that there in No warranty of any kind for the vehicle you are buying.

Others offer a very short warranty, but I have no experience at all with that, as I've never bought at a car auction. :D

[Santa]

"sold as seen" may not be enough to allow a trader to escape their legal responsibilities. They would need to be much more specific and say that the vehicle was not roadworthy and they shouldn't allow it to be driven off their site.

Note that if you buy through an auction that you have – or could have – attended in person, your rights to refunds, repairs and replacements are more limited. These limitations don't apply to internet and telephone auctions.

[Rolebama]

Buying from an auction or Govt surplus is not buying through a dealership. Which is why dealers use auctions to get rid of some of the used cars they take in part exchange to avoid the cost of having to warranty them. I know that Govt sales used to be done by either auction, or a 'tender' basis to avoid having to give warranties. I would assume they still use a similar system or systems.

[Santa]

When I worked for the NHS, I sold many vehicles through auctions, ranging from knackered old ambulances to four year old Fiestas with 25,000 miles on the clock.

With the Fiestas - given the up front discount, the low mileage, and high inflation at the time; I pretty much sold them for what I paid.

[smudger]

Quote............" knackered old ambulances"

Aye! I've driven a few of them. ;)

[Santa]

At the time a new ambulance, without equipment cost around £18k. We sold them at six years old for £200 - £250.

[Rolebama]

During my time working with the AA, the London Ambulance Service were members. I could not honestly believe the state of some of the vehicles I attended. That was, until I found that the fitters/mechanics were paid a bonus on what they did not spend maintaining them. As for selling them at six years old, I don't think I saw a Bedford (was it a Mountaineer? or something similar) less than six years old. Then the 'new' style came out and I was seeing them almost instantaneously.

[Santa]

We had Ford Transits, but were changing to Renaults because the front wheel drive allowed a lower rear entry. Drivers and passengers (these were not the 999 emergency jobs) preferred the ride in the Ford, but we needed a better wheelchair access than a tail lift.

[Dennis W]

Originally Posted by Santa

At the time a new ambulance, without equipment cost around £18k. We sold them at six years old for £200 - £250.

They (the NHS or the trusts) keep them for longer than that these days, I believe. They sell on for something like £1,500 these days. A ten year old Renault Passenger transport Ambulance with 256,000 miles on the clock direct from the Governments agent starting the bidding at £1,500 plus VAT. that is current sort of prices.

[smudger]

Quote....."I found that the fitters/mechanics were paid a bonus on what they did not spend maintaining them."

Aye! that's true, the servicing on our ambulances was poor to say the least?

Ours were always breaking down, just patched up then put back on the road, only to break down again? :confused:

[Rolebama]

Smudger, I got sick and tired of seeing the same ones time and time again with the same problems. I would patch it up to enable it to be driven back to base, and if my temporary repair enable it to start for the next shift, out it would come. We were not authorized to fit new parts, so if a tap to the starter motor got it running, off it went. I took a wheel off one that was VOR'd with no brakes to keep one on the road, and could not believe the amount of hassle the LAS gave the AA for my doing so. I did it again a while later as some bright spark had decided to remove all the spares from the vehicles and lock them in a Depot. Again, lots of hassle. During my interview to determine what level of punishment I should receive for doing so, I stated that I was not prepared to work nights in the knowledge that there would be no Ambulance available should I receive an injury for whatever reason. I was never disciplined for my actions because it was decided the LAS were being too pedantic in their attitude to membership.

[Dennis W]

Perhaps this may be going even further off-topic, However that reminds me of the time that I visited the US Forces Vehicle "graveyard" at Molesworth. There was a nearly new airfield foam fire tender, all bright shining aluminium or chrome, but it had been rolled over. The story was that it had been delivered brand new to Alconbury or one of their other UK bases. Some of the fire fighting boys then decided it literally for a "spin" round the field to put it through its paces. They had rolled it over and it was a write off. So the US forces were disposing of it in their vehicle auction. Probably with just delivery mileage only on the clock.