[ficklejade]

I was trundling up the forest track to do my eagle watch this morning in the downpour when went through a pothole and immediately this ghastly thumping noise started. No warning lights on. Engine was running smoothly so thought - tyres. Pulled over as soon as I could. Handbrake wouldn't engage! Located branch lodged in rear o/f wheel resulting in thump as wheel went round. Tried to shift it - no chance - so inched my way to the hide where at least it was flat as I was thinking I'd have to take the wheel off to have the wheel off to get the thing out. As the weather was so bad I couldn't see the trees, let alone the nest, I spent a futile 20 minutes trying to work the thing out. Decided that I'd have to saw it so dived for the multi-tool - Uh HuH! Missing - son has confessed, he borrowed it and lost it - I have reminded him it's Mother's Day on Sunday rather pointedly! I was hoping one of the forestry workers would come past but no luck and was just debating what to do when my relief turned up with appropriate tool. It took 20 minutes of cutting, tugging, pushing and cutting again to shift the brute which was over 2' long when pieced together.

Fortunately, it hadn't damaged the brake pipes but the car's being checked out Tuesday.

What damage might have been caused?

[Snowball]

Presumably you ran over the branch with front wheels too? Off hand, what I would be checking for is: Bent steering rod(s). Any distortion of (if fitted) brake disc. Any flattening of brake pipes. Tyre wall damage (inner walls particularly). Any vulnerable-looking bits.

A lot depends on size of branch and how it behaved prior to becoming trapped on the vehicle. You may have got away with little or no damage at all (wish you well, and hope that is the case).
Regards, Snowball.

[smudger]

Might be worth keeping an eye on all the liquid levels for a while as well, never know what has been punctured?

[MrDanno]

Sounds like you might have damaged a handbrake cable (or the calliper if rear disks). Depends how strong the branch was.

[ficklejade]

Thanks, all.

Steering seems AOK, ditto fluid levels. Suspecting tyre damage - but that's budgetted for as was aiming to get new pair anyway

MrDanno - branch may have been thin but it was b tough!!

Am hoping it'll be dry tomorrow so can hose all the mud off feel far too embarrassed to send car down in that state!!

[ficklejade]

Just had the car back. Tyre inspected for damage - none; brake pipes issues - none; steering fine. No fluid leaks but Mr Danno hit the nail on the head - branch stretched the handbrake cable - replacement on order and car booked in for fitting next Tuesday - that's assuming wind dies down and ferries run :rolleyes:! As I tend to park the car in gear anyway - far too many slopes around here - that doesn't bother me but it's going to be a nuisance doing eagle watch in this lousy weather when I need engine running at times to try and keep warm!!

[Hometune]

Originally Posted by ficklejade

when I need engine running at times to try and keep warm!!

Fj, that is an expensive heater! At £1.50 a litre maybe time to bring out the hot water bottles eh?

[MrDanno]

The question is, Are the eagles going to pay for your repair bill? What kind of eagles are they?

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by MrDanno

The question is, Are the eagles going to pay for your repair bill? What kind of eagles are they?

I wish !!!!

The ones I'm watching are White Tailed or Sea Eagles - this pair were on the Springwatch programme about five years ago and several other wildlife progs since. We have Golden Eagles too, but their nests are very much more inaccessible and not so popular with egg thieves or so subject to disturbance. We've only got one inaccessible sea eagle nest in the sense you'd have to be a top notch rock climber to get to it.

[Rolebama]

Enquire with MIB. You may find this counts as an uninsured loss. Worst they can do is say no. We all pay £30 -40 each year to fund them.

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by ficklejade

The ones I'm watching are White Tailed or Sea Eagles

I had a look on Google, I'm sure the dimensions must be wrong - almost a 6 foot wing span:eek:

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

Enquire with MIB. You may find this counts as an uninsured loss. Worst they can do is say no. We all pay £30 -40 each year to fund them.

Sorry, Rolebama, just got Internet back after 2.5 days. Car goes in for repairs, Tuesday, should I wait to get bill info before contacting them. Ta.

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by MrDanno

I had a look on Google, I'm sure the dimensions must be wrong - almost a 6 foot wing span:eek:

They're called flying barn doors and are the fourth largest eagle in the world - they're about the size of a well grown 2/3 year old human child in body length , whiand dimensions aren't wrong - these birds are big. They are over twice the size of a buzzard which I guess most people will have seen.

[ficklejade]

To follow up on this and to get some advice/points over...

I've just had my bill for the above incident. I wonder if someone could explain it, please?

Labour was £76.00 (that's covering original investigative visit and remedial work)

Parts are 2 x cables at £32.67 plus VAt
1 post (what's that mean?) at £7.00 plus VAT

Total bill £178.00.

I saw the damage to one cable. Do I have two on a 1.8 2003 Freelander? And what is the 1 Post?? I accept but seriously object to the post code system for delivery of small parts used by major firms/carriers.

I did not ask the garage today when picked up bill because there was a major funeral of a two year old today and very few people are unaffected by this tragedy - it's just the way we operate here.

Can anyone enlighten me in blonde understandable terms, please?

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by ficklejade

To follow up on this and to get some advice/points over...

I've just had my bill for the above incident. I wonder if someone could explain it, please?

Labour was £76.00 (that's covering original investigative visit and remedial work)

Parts are 2 x cables at £32.67 plus VAt
1 post (what's that mean?) at £7.00 plus VAT

Total bill £178.00.

I saw the damage to one cable. Do I have two on a 1.8 2003 Freelander? And what is the 1 Post?? I accept but seriously object to the post code system for delivery of small parts used by major firms/carriers.

I did not ask the garage today when picked up bill because there was a major funeral of a two year old today and very few people are unaffected by this tragedy - it's just the way we operate here.

Can anyone enlighten me in blonde understandable terms, please?

Hi, FJ. I'm only guessing and may be totally wrong, but:
[a] Could it be possible that cables on both sides had to be changed for balance of adjustment? i.e., cables do stretch, and there may be quite a difference when new.
[b] Did the garage have to get the parts posted to them? Can't imagine it being a part.

Very sad news about the two-year-old. How do parents come to terms with that?

[ficklejade]

:DYeah, Snowball, whenever we get small parts they're posted RM; big part hugely expensive coz of carrier rates and if you need stuff quick you're at the mercy of the seller.

One of the reasons I get to keep good value at a cheap rate - even doing off-roading on a battered 9 year old Freelander is that I use LR parts and garage and I work together to get best options. I'll give LR their due - when got car delivery only they agreed local garage could do servicing etc. and I'd keep warranty so long as they used LR spec bits/fluids. They kept their word when I had an issue 2 years in. Just been offered £12 grand for a 2003 1.8 Freelander 5DSW isn't too bad when she's had a hard life! (I'm suspecting the guy thinks I'm a standard female driver - he's never seen me doing 70 down a forestry road to stop someone disturbing the eagles! Or having to drive 9 miles on forestry roads to get to location before Zero O - full rally spec and speed leaving 3 mins behind me :D).

As regards (b) - I don't know, either. Having lost my OH and having to tell my 7 year old and OH's father, everyone deals with death differently in their own way. Or doesn't deal with it - only time tells. What you never seem to do is let someone who has been a huge part of your life be forgotten because they are a part of what you are. People can change your life in a minute or over years, whether for good or ill and you can't change that. Worth bearing in mind that some folks who appear not to care for other's tragedies - personal or remote - may be dealing with their own.

[Hometune]

Originally Posted by ficklejade

1. I'll give LR their due - when got car delivery only they agreed local garage could do servicing etc. and I'd keep warranty so long as they used LR spec bits/fluids. They kept their word when I had an issue 2 years in.

2. Just been offered £12 grand for a 2003 1.8 Freelander 5DSW isn't too bad

1. This is a popular misconception about having to use manufacturer's parts during the warranty period. So long as the parts used are of the same quality then it does NOT affect the warranty. A close look at the service booklet will tell you this. It is also illegal under EU law for the dealer to say you must use their parts. In reality they did not give you anything I'm afraid.

2. Is the £12 grand a typing error? A 2003 Freelander 1.8 is worth around £3,000. If you want a good guide to the trade in value of your car go to What Car's valuation page here:
http://www.whatcar.com/valuations

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by Hometune

1. This is a popular misconception about having to use manufacturer's parts during the warranty period. So long as the parts used are of the same quality then it does NOT affect the warranty. A close look at the service booklet will tell you this. It is also illegal under EU law for the dealer to say you must use their parts. In reality they did not give you anything I'm afraid.

In broad terms, this isn't absolutely true. the term "same quality" is difficult to prove in reality. Offering a warranty involves a two-way responsibility. The manufacturer extends the warranty on trust that the holder of the cover ensures that only 'authorised' parts are used.
My vehicle is covered by a manufacturer's 4-year service and maintenance schedule, for which I do not pay any intial cost.
It states: To maintain the validity of a fixed-cost maintenance plan your responsibilities are to ensure that your vehicle is serviced at the recommended service intervals by a dedicated ****** retailer".

This is not unreasonable, and I would never deviate from it.

And I don't trust EU law. If, somewhere, the EU law says you can use non-manufacturer's parts, I'll bet this is limited to 'general' parts fitted by 'general' garages. If a part, other than that of the vehicle manufacturer or one recognised by him, is the prime cause of failure, then the vehicle manufacturer cannot be held liable for any of the resultant consequences.

It naturally follows that any company offering a warranty on its end product must have control over any replaced components and who fits them. In the final analysis, this is what would happen in law.

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by Hometune

1. This is a popular misconception about having to use manufacturer's parts during the warranty period. So long as the parts used are of the same quality then it does NOT affect the warranty. A close look at the service booklet will tell you this. It is also illegal under EU law for the dealer to say you must use their parts. In reality they did not give you anything I'm afraid.

2. Is the £12 grand a typing error? A 2003 Freelander 1.8 is worth around £3,000. If you want a good guide to the trade in value of your car go to What Car's valuation page here:
http://www.whatcar.com/valuations

Trying to reply here - what's wrong with the quotes? 1. I had a letter attached to service book to allow local appointed non-dealership garage to service/repair during warranty thus saving me 000's £ in ferry fares/accommodation/fuel and vast labour charges. Nowt expensive went wrong in warranty. 2 - genuine offer by local who needs off-road on island and, as car only done 50K miles and has LPG conversion which, although we don't have lpg on island is readily available off where said local spends a lot of work time, makes car worth it to him. Insurance co suggested £7.5K - know won't get that if write off - but still loads higher than £3K!

[Hometune]

Originally Posted by Snowball

In broad terms, this isn't absolutely true. the term "same quality" is difficult to prove in reality. Offering a warranty involves a two-way responsibility. The manufacturer extends the warranty on trust that the holder of the cover ensures that only 'authorised' parts are used.
My vehicle is covered by a manufacturer's 4-year service and maintenance schedule, for which I do not pay any intial cost.
It states: To maintain the validity of a fixed-cost maintenance plan your responsibilities are to ensure that your vehicle is serviced at the recommended service intervals by a dedicated ****** retailer".

This is not unreasonable, and I would never deviate from it.

And I don't trust EU law. If, somewhere, the EU law says you can use non-manufacturer's parts, I'll bet this is limited to 'general' parts fitted by 'general' garages. If a part, other than that of the vehicle manufacturer or one recognised by him, is the prime cause of failure, then the vehicle manufacturer cannot be held liable for any of the resultant consequences.

It naturally follows that any company offering a warranty on its end product must have control over any replaced components and who fits them. In the final analysis, this is what would happen in law.

If you go to any reputable parts supplier you will see their certificate of conformity displayed prominently in the premises, so yes, it is true. And no manufacturer states specifically that their parts MUST be used as this is contrary to EU law. They RECOMMEND their parts. A BIG difference. So his negates the rest of your argument.

[Hometune]

Fj, I think you miss my point. You never did have to spend ££££s on the ferry etc as you can have your car serviced anywhere even under the warranty period. As you can see from my reply to Snowball there are a lot of people out there paying way over the odds for their servicing because they are under the mistaken belief that they HAVE to have their car serviced by the dealer.

Cars on Mull must be worth a fortune. Think I'll bring mine up when its time to sell !!!!

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by Hometune

As you can see from my reply to Snowball there are a lot of people out there paying way over the odds for their servicing because they are under the mistaken belief that they HAVE to have their car serviced by the dealer.

Sorry, hometune, but my car manufacturer's service and maintenance contract specifically states that it must be serviced by a dedicated garage ( which I believe equates to 'authorised') to to maitain the validity of the warranty. The monthly payment goes direct from my account to the car manufacturer, and in return the manufacturer accepts responsibility for upkeep of the car. It is obvious that the manufacturer has a legal right to ensure that the car is maintained using genuine parts, and that anyone carrying out the maintenance work is manufacturer-trained for that vehicle. Just think about it.

If you sold a product and offered a warranty on it, would you be prepared to accept responsibity for any Joe Bloggs the owner of that product might employ to service it? Not if you wanted to stay in business, and i think you will find that the legal implications take that into account.

Since the cost is a fixed payment, there would be no point in taking the vehicle to a garage other than an authorised one. Yes, I do have a choice if I want a cheaper service; I then choose my garage and the manufacturer chooses not to offer a service warranty.

What I do agree with is this. When you buy a car, you do have the right to choose your servicing garage. But, in the event of an issue arising whilst the car is under warranty, if you have used a garage not trained on that vehicle, and they have used non-OE parts, AND can satisfy a court of law that these two factors have resulted in a situation far more costly than it would otherwise have been, then you pick up the tab.
Any warranty work that is paid for by the manufacturer automatically entitles him to decide where the parts are sourced, and who does the work. He is paying for it; you are not.

Face the obvious: If you took your car to the accredited dealership, and they fitted non-OE parts which later failed, what would your reaction be? Play merry Hell, or shrug it off and move on?

[Rolebama]

As a general rule, if you buy a new car, you can service it yourself. However, in the event of a warranty claim, the manufacturer is entitled to ask for proof that service work was carried out correctly, and that parts of acceptable quality were fitted. There is only one manufacturer that I know of that puts every obstacle imaginable trying to fight off warranty claims, but I have been told that most of the others will accept a warranty claim without too much fuss.
On a side note to this, I have been told by a representative of a pattern manufacturer that they are waiting for a manufacturer to state that their pattern parts are unacceptable, as they wish to fight a test case to prove themselves.

[MrDanno]

the term "same quality" is difficult to prove in reality.

Just because a part is not bought from a franchised dealer does not mean it is different. For example, Filters for PSA group vehicles are manufactured by Purflux, Who are a part of Filtrauto, Who in turn is a part of Sogefi. They produce at least 50% of all filters in Europe under various brand names. Often the same filter is just badged differently.

it must be serviced by a dedicated garage ( which I believe equates to 'authorised') to to maitain the validity of the warranty.

The term 'dedicated garage' is misleading and I have no doubt that it is done to fool people into thinking it means a franchised dealer. A 'dedicated garage' is a garage that is run as a proper business.

[Hometune]

Snowball, you are failing to see the difference in my argument. You have your contract with VW and of course they will service the car. End of, no argument. This is not the same as all the others out there. You can take your BMW or Merc or whatever, wherever you like. This is the point. This other point about not standing the warranty is absolute nonsense. I bought a Toyota Yaris from Pentagon in Barnsley 2 years ago. It had 50,000 miles on it. I asked if it had a FULL SERVICE HISTORY. Yes they said or we would not be able to sell it. On checking the srvice booklet, only 1 stamp was at the Toyota dealership, the rest were at local garages. When I asked about this, they said it does not matter and gave me a free extended warranty on the car to show their trust. I part exchanged this Yaris for a newer one some 6 months later. Benfield Toyota looked at the service book and accepted it as having a FULL SERVICE HISTORY. The new car had 3 service stamps and only the first had been done at Toyota, the rest at local garages. They said the same as Pentagon and again gave a free extended year's warranty. They both accepted the service stamps as proof of service. When the auto clutch mechanism failed on the newer car Toyaota took it in and repaired it under warranty, no problem. The bill would have been just over £1,500.

Oh yes, and when I worked at both a Suzuki dealership and a Peugeot one, when we ran out of filters or service parts like spark plugs, we bought them in from Unipart or Andrew Page.

[Snowball]

Hi, hometune. I was really referring to warranties, either provided by the manufacturer for a new vehicle or, like my own, where the warranty is paid for by the vehicle owner directly to the manufacturer, and is manufacturer/franchised garage specific. In these cases, where both the owner and manufacturer have a vested interest, then conditions of parts source and garage employed are reasonable; and beneficial to both parties.
Outside of these limitations, I would agree that there are instances of 'room to manoeuvre'; particularly where it is an independent warrantor like Direct Line. On the one hand, it may give the vehicle owner some advantages, but on the other it can provide an unscrupulous warrantor with dubious escape clauses. I think the latter situation is the root cause for warranties sometimes being classed as worthless.

[Hometune]

Yes, I am talking about manufacturer warranties. Ford give you a 3 year warranty (like most) and they cannot stop you servicing the car elsewhere. They cannot stop you using parts other than their own. This is all enshrined under the Right to Repair and is part of EU law. Unfortunately, dealer receptionists are under pressure to sell, so they will tell you you must have the car serviced by the dealer or your warranty is void. This is unlawful and a breach of the EU law. After I bought my brand new Peugeot van the dealer contacted me a year later to tell me the van needed servicing and that the warranty would be invalidated if I did not. I reported this dealer to Trading Standards when they refused to concede this very point. They do not do this now.
Incidentally VW were fined £59 million some 12 years ago for failing to release their technical data to the aftermarket. I think that says it all.

[smudger]

Quote.."only the first had been done at Toyota, the rest at local garages."

Aye! and if you were trading the car in, they would say that the car was worth less, because it never had "dealer stamps" on the service record????:confused:

You can never win when it comes to buying a second hand car, all the "good points" they say are good, when selling the car, but are Bad when it comes to trading it in:(

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by smudger

Aye! and if you were trading the car in, they would say that the car was worth less, because it never had "dealer stamps" on the service record????:confused:

The service book and stamps is all a load of nonsense anyway, I've seen franchised dealers just run through a book and stamp 100,000miles worth of servicing on a car with 137,000miles and was only serviced at the original main dealer up to 37,000miles.

I bought my car new from a local dealer 10 years ago and it has never been back to a dealer since and never had the book stamped apart from the delivery inspection page. Will it make any difference to the resale value? I doubt it on a 10 year old car or how ever old it might be when I get rid of it.

[Hometune]

Originally Posted by smudger

Quote.."only the first had been done at Toyota, the rest at local garages."

Aye! and if you were trading the car in, they would say that the car was worth less, because it never had "dealer stamps" on the service record????:confused:

You can never win when it comes to buying a second hand car, all the "good points" they say are good, when selling the car, but are Bad when it comes to trading it in:(

The service record had no bearing on the trade in value. I did my homework before I went so I knew what I was going to pay. But, you are right, you can't win with a dealer......