[Andy2009]

Is anyone else bothered by this or is it just me?

Due to where I work I'm travelling when dark most of the time. I can guarantee that I won't be able to go 3 minutes driving without having cars behind me seeming to have full beams on (and no I'm not being flashed!)

Seems to me that people are fitting their cars with inappropriate headlights (like those new neon type ones that could be used on Blackpool tower) or not having them properly adjusted.

Getting fed up of having to adjust my position to stop being blinded :mad:

Seems like people are becomming more and more ignorant and treating their cars like fashion accessories.

[Snowball]

At almost any car accessory shop you can purchase headlight bulbs that are 300% brighter than OE, and have about 100w power consumption.
These bulbs are not road legal, but don't let it surprise you that this means nothing to the users.
My bulbs are H7 and 55w (OE as supplied with the vehicle). There are H7 bulbs available that give 50% more, whiter light, are also 55w., and are road legal.
I am considering changing to these bulbs just to cut down on some of the disadvantage that I suffer when I encounter these illegal headlights.

[smudger]

Is that them lights that seem to be blue in colour? As Ive seen a few of them on the road and they do seem to be a lot brighter.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by smudger

Is that them lights that seem to be blue in colour? As Ive seen a few of them on the road and they do seem to be a lot brighter.

I think that's 'em. Some are Xenon gas-filled with special electronics to drive them. Amazing how much people will for out to be an annoyance to others, ain't it?

I believe the legal ones also have a bluish tint to them, although the makers claim it to be pure white light.

[Andy2009]

Its the blue ones as well as white ones.

The blue ones though have this flashing effect which makes it look like someone is trying to flash you - very off putting.

It's worse when driving on a motorway in the dark. Oncoming traffic blinds you, you get blinded by these lights on cars coming from behind you as well.

I was stationary in front of an on facing car with these lights on and waiting for oncoming traffic to pass. The lights on this car were blinding - had to shield my eyes.

The driver of the car had the decency to turn them off after about 10 seconds, but I suspect not the decency to take them off completely.

Think I'll install some laser pens in my car and aim them at the ignorant sods who use these things. See how they like it...

[Snowball]

Andy, I really hope you are kidding about laser pens. Thse are dangerous things and can cause permanent damage to eyes. There would also be the risk of injury to victims innocent of the cause for your annoyance.

I share your annoyance over these illegal lights, but the blame for them spreading through the driving community has to be levelled at the police for their lack of diligence, and the unscrupulous dealers who will sell anything that brings in a profit.

These bulbs are for off-road/rally use. The real cause of the problem has been their being designed to fit into conventional car headlights. They should have been designed to fit only into removable lamps, which could be taken off the vehicle when used on public highways.

As I have previously said, I intend to fit brighter bulbs to my car, but these will be type H7 replacing H7, the same wattage, and entirely legal. There will be some improvement, but they still won't match up to the glare from the illegal bulbs.

I don't condone breaking the law so, for me, going down the unlawful route is not an option.

[Watcher]

Headlamps

I agree with much of the above (except the hysteria about laser pens - having used lasers, I do NOT believe you can buy a handheld one with sufficient power to do any damage).

However, I do think much of this problem is due to the "Read the instructions if all else fails" brigade - many many cars have a control (often a simple rotary switch) with which the motorist who has actually bothered to read the manual cna adjust the aim of the headlamps according to the load being carried.

If you can't be bothered/couldn't care less, and don't set the control properly (e.g. if you have any load in th rear) your headlamps WILL dazzle like high-beam - which is precisely why the control is fitted in the first place!

[Snowball]

I've heard of warnings about laser pens. I know laser-based measuring instruments carry warnings. I have no idea of what laser products are available that can cause such damage, but the obvious answer to anyone with a brain is don't try it.

Regardless of any provision for beam adjustment according to vehicle load, and its proper use, the illegal headlight bulbs in question are definitely problematic, and should not be used on the public highway. Even the manufacturers are specific about their not being permitted on public roads.

There are plenty of complaints about the Nanny State; all the fault of the ones who create the needs for this "adult nursery", and who should consider their actions and act responsibly so that we don't cop for even more petty rules.

[Watcher]

Warning!

I too have "heard" of warnings about lasers, and I repeat, they are mostly rubbish! I do NOT believe you can buy a battery powered hand-held laser sufficiently powerful to do any harm.

I have read newspaper stories about "pilots being dazzled or even temporarily blinded" by someone on the ground shining a laser in his/her eyes at night. That's one hell of an aim they must have to hit that target, not to mention the ability to see the pilot's eyes at that distance in the first place!

As for warnings, if you have a look inside any CD player you will find a warning sticker "Class One Laser" - these deadly devices have a range measured in, oh, millimetres at best and not enough power to melt butter (otherwise when you played a CD...). Nah, too much rubbish in newspapers (there's a surprise - not!) and James Bond death ray lasers and not enough science about what they actually are. Have you seen the size of the thing the US Air Force have been using to try to hit missiles? Fills a B747!!:cool:

[Snowball]

I recommend a look on google at the first two items: Lasers and Laser Safety Fact Sheet.
Whatever anyone may think they know about lasers, the priority is that they should not point them towards people, and certainly not their eyes, under any circumstances.

There may be occasions when safety warnings can be overstated, but most warnings are there with good reason.

Whether any fool using such a device in a reckless manner will actually succeed in causing eye damage is open to question, but the law has a "with intent" proviso; getting caught in the act would not require proof that damage was actually inflicted.

[Watcher]

Lasers

Aha! Now the goal-posts have moved!

Agreed that as far as the criminal law is concerned intent is the key! As far as civil courts are concerned defending even a ridiculous suit could easily bankrupt the ordinary individual, and it is for that reason that many things (not just lasers) carry warnings - a general, all-round get-out clause.

However, the laws of physics have nothing to do with courts (thank goodness) and lasers are much misunderstood - I repeat, having experience of working with lasers, I have yet to see a battery-powered hand-held device that could, in reality, do any harm.

As a matter of fact, the speed trap IR lasers the police use are far more powerful than you or I could buy and at, say, 100 m the laser is not a point source but a "cone" at least a metre across - then you have the inverse square law to contend with...

I grant that if you were stupid enough to stare into the one NASA uses to bounce off the reflectors that the Apollo missions left on the surface of the Moon...

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by Watcher

Aha! Now the goal-posts have moved!

However, the laws of physics have nothing to do with courts (thank goodness) and lasers are much misunderstood - I repeat, having experience of working with lasers, I have yet to see a battery-powered hand-held device that could, in reality, do any harm.

So, regardless of any warning to the contrary, are you categorically stating that hand-held lasers are icapable of inflicting harm?
Would you agree that the fact that 'you have yet to see one' doesn't necessarily mean that they don't exist?

[Watcher]

Lasers

This all started in response to a fairly jocular and off hand remark about "dazzling back with a laser pen".

It has now become very silly.

No, I don't accept that warning signs or stickers are always put on things for a good reason, they are often put on things for very silly and/or cynical reasons.

No, I do NOT believe a "dangerous" hand-held battery powered laser pen is available, (in the sense that it could do any more to the human eye than any other bright light at night) and even if it were available it would be nigh on impossible to aim it accurately enough and steadily enough (by hand) to hit a tiny part of a moving target, (the eye) and even if you did, the inverse square law would render it much less powerful by the time the light reached it's target. Lasers which can cause tissue damage are NOT tiny hand-held things powered by a couple of AA batteries!

What I do agree with is the frustration expressed with anyone being dazzled by illegal/badly adjusted bulbs, and what I dis agree with is any attempt to deliberately dazzle anyone in retaliation.

As this thread has now got so far off topic, I will not discuss lasers any further.

[MrDanno]

I'm glad that over the last 10 years or so some cars have been fitted with systems so that once lights are turned off they revert back to dipped beam.

The problem is people who never learn how to operate the controls of their cars. I once stopped a woman that was blinding me with main beam - she was not aware what the blue warning light on the dash was for and didn't even realise that the indicator stalk moved forward and backwards to operate headlights too.

[smudger]

Ah! well, that's just a case of ignorance really, not knowing all the controls of her car?

Mind you, light controls on all cars are much the same, despite the amount of different makes and models.

I can remember the dip switch on my Dads old Austin A70, was a button on the left hand side of the floor next to the clutch.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by smudger

Ah! well, that's just a case of ignorance really, not knowing all the controls of her car?

Mind you, light controls on all cars are much the same, despite the amount of different makes and models.

I can remember the dip switch on my Dads old Austin A70, was a button on the left hand side of the floor next to the clutch.

How many people bother to read their handbooks in the first place? My 09 car is supposedly the same model as my previous 54 car, but there are a few subtle differences in how the controls function; even if they look the same.

Your 'dip and switch' comments take me back a ways, Smudger. My first car (1938 Standard 9) had the floor-mounted dip-and-switch. There was a heavy solenoid unit in the L/H headlight which, when 'dipped', switched off the R/H headlight and the clunk could be heard inside the car as the whole reflector/bulb assembly flipped to a left-and-down position.
In those days it was easier to spot a badly aligned lamp, because the switched-off R/H headlight clearly indicated that dipped beam had been selected.

I often wonder if todays cars would be better if the R/H headlight was extinguished on dipped beam, but improved sidelights fitted to avoid the risk of the car being mistaken for a motorcycle.
Then, certainly on unlit rural roads, slower speeds would be necessary for safety, and I can't see that being popular with todays point-and-go brigade.

[Snowball]

Since it was the OP, Andy2009, who raised the laser pen comment, and I consider my right to expression equal to any other poster, I will just conclude with my own personal opinions to Andy2009.

I have no idea of in what context the comment regarding laser pens was intended. Neither do I claim to have any specific inside knowledge of what is, or isn't, possible with laser pens.

But, as a responsible adult, of which I am sure Andy is, I would just advise him to play it safe.