[chopper jockey]

I got pulled over by the cops yesterday morning on the way to work, for overtaking a bus on a bus stop!
The two of them kept them selves busy with me for over twenty minutes with questions like

Q) Are you in a hurry sir?
A) Would it make any difference if I was or not?

Q) Swich off your ignition and sit in our car (Well not exactly a question)
A) No, my turbo is hot and I want it to cool down first.

Q) Have you had a drink Sir?
A) Yes
Q) How much?
A) Half a litre
Q) How long ago ?
A) About half an hour
Q) What did you drink?
A) A cup of tea.

Q) Do you realise your car is a lethal weapon and when you passed that bus there could have been a woman and a young child crossing the road ?
A) If you say so, but I was only doing 10mph and looking where I was going and guess what? there was no woman and young child crossing the road.

Q) Are you known to the Police sir?
A) (I looked at both of them, one at a time ) I'm sorry I don't recognise either of you, you all look the same to me.

Q) Do you have your documents with you sir?
A) Only my license.

Q) Do you realise you were driving dangerously around a blind bend?
A) It wasn't blind when I went around it. If you think I was driving dangerously then give me a ticket and I will see you in court. Haven't you cops got any real crooks to catch or something constructive to do?

Any way you get the idea, this went on and on. I actually heard a call on their radio that a burgulary was taking place and they said they have to deal with me first!
They checked me out on their computer to see if I was a terrorist or something. Presumably their computer would have told them if I was not insured etc, so then they gave me a producer anyway. So I nominated the local police station and went there tonight with my documents and guess what? The police station was closed.
I used the internal phone on the outside wall, then after waiting another 10 minutes the duty sargent spoke to me, explaining why the police station was closed and said I would have to come back when it's open. I refused but invited him to come to my work place within 7 days where he could inspect my documents if he wished. So after another 10 minutes on the phone, explaining the wasting of police resourses he said someone will ring me back!

[Snowball]

I personally believe the police have a difficult job to do, but episodes like this do make life harder for the ones without an echo chamber between their ears.

Helpful to the police though my attitude may be, I was amused by chopper jockey's reactions as that is exactly how my response would probably go in a similar situation.:)

[MrDanno]

That sounds exactly like the pompous little erk that stopped me for not wearing a seatbelt but, What really got my back up was the fact that 5 of the hollow heads with him all checked my tax disk one at a time.
I don't think he liked it that I would not give him my car keys - he even threatened to arrest me and take me in to the station because he could not get his way.
It is amazing what Idiots this country allows to wear a police uniform. Of course I got a fine and producer for not wearing a belt which was like water off a ducks back but, I was treated worse than a murderer. Amazing how bad they can be with people who do have a license,TAX,MOT and insurance.
Yet they seem to be more polite to people that are driving entirely illegally.

The thing that really gets me is the way they think that nobody can drive as well as a Policeman can - Well, If you saw how many police vehicles are in our local bodyshop for repair it tells a different story!

[Rolebama]

Not that long ago, I was taking my daughter and fiance to work in the morning. Hw works as a motorcycle mechanic, and she was the workshop receptionist. Their helmets were on open display on the rear parcel shelf. We soon had one Police car in front, one behind, and one alongsided. It was explained that the reason I was stopped was because 'a lot of people go around stealing motorcycles'. Fair enough, I thought, but within a few minutes, the PC started going on about wearing a stab vest because of the dangers of stopping cars nowadays. I politely pointed out that I do not stab PCs, and that the traffic was building up, and they would be late. This was met with the threat that we could be taken to the Police Station to make statements. So, yes, they are out there.

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

the PC started going on about wearing a stab vest because of the dangers of stopping cars nowadays..

Well, If they had a better attitude with people I bet they wouldn't need to worry so much about getting stabbed.
I treat people the way they treat me, If they start off rude and obnoxious - They get rude and obnoxious in return.
There is some members of the public that do need dealing with in this way but, Surely it is best to always start off polite and adjust as you go along.
I found the Police in Ukraine to be far more polite than ours I got stopped and the first words were "good evening sir, It is late to be out driving" in a very polite tone - They were only looking for drunk drivers and a quick look at the documents and we were on our way again. they did not even ask for a sample of breath.

[Snowball]

My sentiments exactly, MrDanno. Fortunately, the rude policeman appears to be in the minority. However, as most decent folk rarely get stopped by the police, so it only needs a couple of incidents of rudeness to happen in order to form a generally adverse opinion of the police.

I know that the police must take the high ground, having to be ready for almost any eventuality. Some situations will make an immediate need for a hard line obvious but, in the absence of any behaviour to suggest this need, stopping someone should always be done politely. At that point, their training and intelligence(?) should quickly alert them as to whether a polite interaction should continue.

The police would not be happy to have the general public think that every policeman is a rude thickhead; and likewise the general public do not expect the police to regard every one of them (the public) as a potential criminal from the outset.

More amazing; some rude police officers seem to be surprised to get a rebuff for their rudeness, and think a law-abiding citizen is going to be afraid to smack (verbally) their wrists; then expecting threats of arrest to get the bumbling nitwits out of trouble.

Not me, pal. I was brought up to be polite and expect politeness in return, and that's what you'll get. But act officiously stroppy, and I'll give you a dressing down. Being law-abiding myself, the uniform doesn't frighten me!;)

[barrie radford]

With respect, the original poster in my opinion did not show the officer very much courtesy in the first place:

Q) Are you in a hurry sir?
A) Would it make any difference if I was or not?

Q) Swich off your ignition and sit in our car (Well not exactly a question)
A) No, my turbo is hot and I want it to cool down first.

Q) Have you had a drink Sir?
A) Yes

The following reply would have probabally led the conversation in a different direction:
Q)Are you in a hurry sir?
A) No not really, I just on my way to work! Is everything ok?

Like other posters have said - treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. At the end of the day the police are just humans doing there jobs. Thier attitude probabally deteriates the longer they spend in the job - dealing the British pubic day to day is not an easy task. Just my opinion.

[wagolynn]

Reading this thread reminds me of two things: First On the odd occasion I have seen a ‘cop’ program on TV, it seems the police are looking for a fight, they challenge the person they are talking to. Drunks are drunks, it is not difficult to antagonise a drunk nor is it particularly clever...
Secondly, many years ago, I got a call from the factory, a night shift worker had not turned up and they were already a man down due to sickness. I knew the missing man was having trouble with his car so I phoned his home, his wife reported he had set off but would call at his pigeon loft on the way and no, he had not got the car fixed. Thinking he was stuck and knowing the route he would take I decided to run around and see if I could help, I found him at the pigeon loft fighting two youths (late teens). I got out of my car to see if he needed help, then I noticed every time he hit one, he said, sorry. As he had just about knocked them to a standstill, I suggested enough was enough and the youths ran off. He had apparently discovered them trying to break into his loft; He was breathless but managed to thank me for turning up, then apologised for being late. Curious, I enquired why he said, sorry, each time he landed a punch, he said his mother had always insisted as kids that they should be polite and it had stuck with him...

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by barrie radford

With respect, the original poster in my opinion did not show the officer very much courtesy in the first place:
Q) Are you in a hurry sir?
A) Would it make any difference if I was or not?

Like other posters have said - treat others as you wish to be treated yourself. At the end of the day the police are just humans doing there jobs. Thier attitude probabally deteriates the longer they spend in the job - dealing the British pubic day to day is not an easy task. Just my opinion.

The problem with reading the writen word is that it is not possible to be judgemental unless (a) you hear at first hand the tone of voice, or (b) an accurate discription of the voice tone is described.

If the first question described was the opening of the dialogue, then the tone of voice could have been sarcastic, and the policeman possibly deserved a hard time. If the tone was friendly, it could then be argued that it was the officer who was treated rudely.

Perhaps, as an opening comment, the officer could have just said, "Good morning, sir. Could we have a word, please?" If the tone is kept polite and formal, then any rudeness in reply places the officer in a stronger position to decide if the person stopped is being obstructive. Otherwise, if the officer did speak in a manner that even bordered on rudeness, then the whole dialogue, from a legal point of view, may be regarded as a ***-for-tat exchange.
Nobody wins, and all concerned have a bad start to their day.

It comes back to the old adage of the stout oak snapping in the tempest, whereas the willow just bends in the wind.:)

[barrie radford]

Originally Posted by Snowball

The problem with reading the writen word is that it is not possible to be judgemental unless (a) you hear at first hand the tone of voice, or (b) an accurate discription of the voice tone is described.

If the first question described was the opening of the dialogue, then the tone of voice could have been sarcastic, and the policeman possibly deserved a hard time. If the tone was friendly, it could then be argued that it was the officer who was treated rudely.

Perhaps, as an opening comment, the officer could have just said, "Good morning, sir. Could we have a word, please?" If the tone is kept polite and formal, then any rudeness in reply places the officer in a stronger position to decide if the person stopped is being obstructive. Otherwise, if the officer did speak in a manner that even bordered on rudeness, then the whole dialogue, from a legal point of view, may be regarded as a ***-for-tat exchange.
Nobody wins, and all concerned have a bad start to their day.

It comes back to the old adage of the stout oak snapping in the tempest, whereas the willow just bends in the wind.:)

Well look at the following two questions:
Can you turn off your engine - No
Have you been drinking - Yes

If you want to antogonise a policeman, great - but then don't be surprised afterwards when they start giving you a hard time!

[Snowball]

Sorry, barrie, but I think you missed my point. If the very first question that I highlighted was the opening of the conversation then, if that had ben in anything like a sarcastic tone, the theme would be set for confrontation. Policemen cannot expect a different reaction to rudeness, just because they wear a uniform.
Remember though, I did include a proviso for an alternative opinion; viz. the policeman using a friendly tone. But this is all conjecture because only the original poster had actual knowledge of why he rebuffed the officer.
The police have every right to stop someone if they feel there is legitimate need, and I would never support villifying them where they conduct their questioning in a polite and professional manner.

[wagolynn]

Originally Posted by barrie radford

Well look at the following two questions:
Can you turn off your engine - No
Have you been drinking - Yes

If you want to antogonise a policeman, great - but then don't be surprised afterwards when they start giving you a hard time!

But the reason for not turning the engine off immediately is/was valid certainly with older turbo installations.
I personally do not go for the matching like with like strategy, I prefer to wind them right up by staying calm and courteous, if you lose your cool you will get more angry because, if you are still thinking, you know the other party has won the physiological battle, stay calm and polite and the game is yours to lose. :cool:

[barrie radford]

Would you mind turning your engine of please:
Yes of course, but would you allow me to let the turbo cool please.

Have you bben drinking, sir?
No of course not.

If the policeman was being sarcastic - why stoop to there level? The O.P could have won the policeman over with a little courtesy.

Generally the police are on our side, you will get the occasional policeman who thinks because he has a uniform he has the right to behave as an idiot.

There are idiots in all professions. But why risk upsetting him when he can at the least give you the inconvienence of a producer....?

[wagolynn]

Originally Posted by barrie radford

Would you mind turning your engine of please:
Yes of course, but would you allow me to let the turbo cool please.

Have you bben drinking, sir?
No of course not.

If the policeman was being sarcastic - why stoop to there level? The O.P could have won the policeman over with a little courtesy.

Generally the police are on our side, you will get the occasional policeman who thinks because he has a uniform he has the right to behave as an idiot.

There are idiots in all professions. But why risk upsetting him when he can at the least give you the inconvienence of a producer....?

Again, we are back to physiology, we are never comfortable being backed into a corner, he has a weapon, his authority, best to get the first blow in...

[barrie radford]

Again, we are back to physiology, we are never comfortable being backed into a corner, he has a weapon, his authority, best to get the first blow in...
.................................................. .................................................. ......................
Yes, well we are both singing from the same hymn sheet - stay calm and courteus.

;)

[smudger]

I knew a traffic cop who would go out of his way to wind up the motorist he stopped, but I found out later that none of his workmates liked him, saying he was just as obnoxious when he was out of uniform?

I don't know if he is still in the force, but I know he had a lot of complaints from members of the public that he came into contact with him.

[chopper jockey]

I suppose I should add that in fairness, the two constables were polite with me at all times. The reason I took offence was because they politely told me I was driving dangerously and prior to the bus I was swerving in the road, which in my opinion of course I was not.
I was miffed with them because they think that driving around pot holes in the road amounts to swerving and passing a parked bus amounts to dangerous driving. Not.
From then on I had no respect for them. I thought they must be having a laugh for pulling me over for such triviality.

[barrie radford]

Well I respect your answer Chopper - would it have not been easier to explain that to the police in the calm way you just told us - I.E "sorry if it seemed eratic officer but I love my car and there was two massive pot-holes back there, I know it may of looked bad but I can assure you I take a lot of pride in driving safely"

I am sure you are a safe driver judging by all the posts from members on this site, a very rational group of people indeed, and judging by the lasy post you made. I am sorry if I judged you on your first post. Two sides to every story I guess......

[Snowball]

Over the span of 55+ years of driving, I have only had contact with the police on 3 occasions; two were many years ago, and one was in 2009.
In these contacts, I met two extremes of behaviour.

The first was when use of a single, window-mounted parking light was given clearance by the Leicestershire Chief Constable; subject to sensible parking.
I arranged my obligatory lights so that, when parked, just the offside front and rear were illuminated; which I felt to be safer as it marked the vehicle extremities.
Whilst parked so outside a relatives door, Mr Plod knocks on door. Relative calls me to door. "Are you the owner of .......... Do you know your lights are not working?"
I explain the parking light arrangement. "I do not allow parking lights in my village. I may consider reporting you for prosecution".
At this point I told the officer that he would obey his Chief Constable's orders, wished him a curt goodnight, and closed the door. Heard no more.

Second occasion, a foot policeman signalled me to stop. He noticed my tax disc was out of date. I said I was sure I had renewed it, and would produce it at the police station. He said not to do this as it is an offence to to show to disc. He told me to take his name and number and, if stopped again, inform any officer that he was dealing with it. If I wasn't taxed, he'd be around to see me.
I was taxed. Heard no more. Now there,s a reasonable officer.

Third case. Police called after I was rammed by a hit-and-run driver, near Oxford, in 2009.
Police officer very polite, said I had done nothing wrong, but still breathalised me (it was zero) because that is the standard procedure. No arguing; he was only carrying out his job.

It all comes down to a combination of verbal expression, body language, and the recipient's conception of an officer's attitude. Then, depending upon the placidness or otherwise of the individual parties, the most minute misreading at the outset can move the dialogue from polite and calm to abuse/aggression.

[AdamB]

It has to be said that reading about this situation as it unfolded, you were a bit obstructive and probably the officer picked up on it so it went on from there. Treat as you wish to be treated is the best advice.

To say that 'if the police werent rude to people they wouldnt have to worry about being stabbed' is bang out of order regardless. Assaults on police are entirely random at times and also depends on where you live. My brother is a chippy for a London Borough and he has to wear a stab vest at some of the estates he works on, as do the caretakers. Rudeness doesnt come into it.

I am very much pro-police but sometimes they do not help themselves i appreciate that but violence is never justified just because of the job you do or the uniform you wear.

[Snowball]

I have to agree with AdamB's comments about violence. People are too ready these days to turn abusive, and then escalate to violence. I believe (my personal opinion) that two reasons for this are promoted by films and TV.
Too many of the younger ones, and sometimes not so young, have lost the the ability to fully utilise their own language. This results in yawping, trying to get the edge with a loud mouth, then hitting out because they have quickly reached their vocabulary limits.

The second reason is that TV and film violence are too misleading. The Bruce Willis type of films, where the "hero?" can take horrific punishment then walk away, probably gives impressionable young people the idea that the human body can stand such punishment; which simply is not true.

I remember an altercation with a colleague some years ago. When he finally calmed down, I shook his hand and said, "No hard feelings, friend. I'll still come to your parents' wedding". He just grinned, then started laughing.
This is an extreme comment (because it is insulting), so I am not suggesting that it should be commonly used, but it is an example of how rudeness can be responded to without resorting to nastiness or loud-mouthed confrontation.

[MrDanno]

I will agree that the police do have a difficult job and that they should fully check anyone they stop but, the old saying "speak to people how you would like to be spoken to" springs to mind.
Just because you have stopped someone for apparently 'swerving on the road' or doing anything else which you think is a bit strange but, not illegal does not give you the right to talk to them like dirt.
Unfortunately we do have people who drive without the necessary documents and who often lie when stopped but, It appears courtesy is something they do not teach at police school.

[Snowball]

I am not sure that courtesy itself is something specifically to be taught at police school, any more than in any other form of training. Should not courtesy be something already within us; having been learned from our early days of childhood?

At the late stage of adulthood, if courtesy isn't already embedded in a person then, under any normal daily pressures, lack of courtesy will be second nature, irrespective of any such teaching during training courses.
Like any other human being, a policeman does not spend his/her time mentally repeating, "I must be courteous, I must be coutreous......"

In any case, isn't respect the bedrock of courtesy? I don't think one will work without the other.

We once had a manager who never raised his voice or got hot under the collar, no matter what the circumstances. Most of the staff and employees held him in high esteem and with great respect. For those who did not, I think it was envy because they could never conduct themselves with such calmness and self control.

[wagolynn]

I know of a young man who joined the police straight from school, we saw him throughout his training and apart from, wanting to demonstrate his knew found knowledge, he just grew up a bit. The major changes came when he was assigned to his first station. He changed from a reasonably intelligent recruit, keen to help, to a drunken bully in about nine months. Whilst I would argue that the nature of the work may well drive people in that direction, I would also argue that the training and supervision should be organised to guard against this. But, I suppose this is difficult because all ranks are products of the same system.

[RoadHog_65]

I was stopped at 23:30 just outside Portmadoc in North Wales quite a few years back by a local hick who came blasting up behind me with full beam on. he got so close I thought I would teach him how to use brakes. he was NOT well happy as I threw my car door open and approached HIS window shining my torch in HIS face.

"How do YOU like it"? I asked him whereupon he and his partner got out and start giving my car the once over. "Stopped you because of a defective brake light". Funny that as I hadn't used the brakes up to the point where I showed him what brakes were. Well, I'd just driven 250 miles and told him that the bulb had probably failed on the journey as I had checked the whole of the car (as I always do) before a long journey.

"Just depress the brake pedal once more for me sir, so I can confirm the ticket of having a defective light". I pressed the brake pedal and HEY PRESTO, BOTH lights were fine "Hmm it's started working again" he said". "Yes, just like your eyesight, then eh"?!

He then asked to look in my boot. I refused him on the grounds that he had no reason to do so and if he wanted to he should go get a warrant and I'd be happy to oblige him then. I told him that, in I had two guns in the boot (both legal) and I did not want to spend hours answering questions from someone who only have a very limited knowledge of the Firearms act.

I then made a VERY slow and deliberate examination of his patrol car and told him if I found ONE item in question I would report him, I also intended to report him for driving in an unsafe and intimidating manner (I took out MY notebook and recorded his badge number). I then told him that for his attitude, I would have him back walking the beat within a week as he obviously had no idea who he had "pulled".

I popped in to visit the chief at his local (whom I happen to know quite well) sure enough next week in the pouring rain I saw this officer on foot patrol. I beeped and waved as I drove past SLOWLY!!

Justice is sweet. I advocate reporting ANY police officer who has an "attitude". YES I realise they do a difficult job, but that's no excuse for a "holier than thou" attitude towards someone who might quite simply have made a genuine mistake, and contrary to what some officers might believe, we do NOT yet live in a totally police state.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by RoadHog_65

(1) I told him that, in I had two guns in the boot (both legal) and I did not want to spend hours answering questions from someone who only have a very limited knowledge of the Firearms act.

(2) I would have him back walking the beat within a week as he obviously had no idea who he had "pulled".

(3) I popped in to visit the chief at his local (whom I happen to know quite well) sure enough next week in the pouring rain I saw this officer on foot patrol. I beeped and waved as I drove past SLOWLY!!
.

On the face of it, you do appear to have been a little provoked. However, there are some comments which do not sit well.

(1) If you admitted to having guns in your boot, a police officer is legitimately entitled to satisfy him-herself that they are lawfully owned and lawfully being carried.

(2) What made you sure that you "would have him back on the beat"?
Also, what difference does it make as to "whom he pulled"?

(3) Visiting the chief at his local. Was this some form of old-pals act?

Regardless of your justification to be annoyed, or who you may "think" you are, that officer was fully entitled to undergo the proper complaints procedures and, if that was circumvented by the "chief"(done and dusted within a week sounds like a lynching), then it was his job that should have been on the line.

[ficklejade]

I agree; if you want people to treat you well, you have to do the same. Don't always manage it though :o!

I got a right ticking off a few years back for carrying knives (of the kitchen variety) to be sharpened - they were well wrapped up and down the bottom of my bag. It had to be that day, they did a random security exercise on the ferry. I desperately wanted to ask how on earth I was supposed to get to the shop but hung on to my temper. I have to use the ferry regularly and don't want continued aggro!

BTW, never got the answer to the query - any answers????:confused:

[RoadHog_65]

Snowball, you are right about the officers right to check the guns (I always carry the license when they are being moved though) and I produced this to him. I also informed him they were in a locked safe in the boot and I was not prepared to open it on the public highway...Sorry didn't mention that

Point 2 was because at this point I was quite annoyed with him and thought this comment might get him thinking (OK maybe not thinking as such, after all this IS Porthmadoc we're talking about.

Point 3, not exactly. My family is very well known and respected in the area, and this was back in the days when the HQ was in Caernarfon. My Grandfather knew the CC (down to a handshake if you know what I mean).

It was the driving right up my a*@ with full beam on that I found annoying, along with his comments about "confirming a faulty light to give me a ticket". He also stated that if I found anything wrong with HIS police vehicle, it wasn't his fault. WRONG, it is the DRIVERS responsibility to ensure his vehicle is in a roadworthy state. This told me he didn't know much about road traffic law and was only an patrol, probably with no advanced driving training either.

This guy was trying to intimidate me thinking I'd be afraid (as most people are) when pulled. I had done nothing wrong and his attitude was totally inappropriate. He seemed to forget not ALL motorists are criminals.

I admit though maybe I could have behaved a little aggressively, but I was tired and I just KNEW when he drove past me in the opposite direction he was going to pull me (call it intuition) so I was already on the defensive for the forthcoming wasting of my time.

Forgot to mention, As far as I am aware a car is designated as a "Private Place" therefor under law a warranty MUST be secured in order to search, EXCEPT where REASONABLE suspicion exists that the person may have committed an offence. Thus it would be legal to carry a gun on the back seat PROVIDING access could not be gained sot the trigger to discharge the weapon. Removing the firing bolt would also be effective. Same applies to public places (or at least is USED to).

[Snowball]

I am by no means trying to justify bad police driving/attitude. I am still wondering about observation of due process of the complaints procedure.
Regardless of a police officer's bad attitude, he/she must be dealt with on the basis of there being no social standing leverage.
I am not disputing whether a reprimand was deserved; just that the result should have been no different for, say, a stranger to the area.

Whether or not a family is respected in the area, it should have no bearing on how a police officer carries out his duties. History has shown that the most respected of citizens are capable of wrong-doing so, quite correctly, the police have to operate with a level playing field in that respect.
Again, social standing carries no privileges for either lenient treatment or otherwise by the officer; neither does it permit an officer to do anything but address his/her duties in an impartial manner.

These are two of the most important principles in applying law and order in a civilised society.

Of course there will be the (hopefully) odd occasion when a police officer will behave in a manner not worthy of the uniform; behind the uniform is a normal human being. Let's admit it, in modern times the police officer has to toe a line almost like an actor memorising his/her script. Occasionally, some of the lines get forgotten.

[RoadHog_65]

Hi Snowball,

I agree social standing (I'm just an ordinary pleb) has no bearing on an individuals ability to influence a police disciplinary hearing, however.. and I know this is crude, my Grandfather being in the same Masonic Lodge (something I never took to) as the CC could :o. I'm sure this officers "re-assignment to other duties" had no bearing on that though. I made my complaint, maybe it was "hurried along a little by outside influences" - as a "favour". I never asked, perhaps I just assumed "something" would be done, I was much younger and more arrogant than I am now :o and thught only of myself rather than how what I do affects others.

Sadly that is the way in North Wales...Still!!

Maybe the officer in question had had a bad day. I more than most realise how difficult it is to keep a civil tone when others "kick off".

I believe the officer in question is now quite high up and very well liked, maybe he took something away from the whole experience other than dented pride. Looking back, I'm quite embarrassed at what I did, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Would I do it again? NO, I have more respect for the police now and as I work closely with them on occasion, I'd find it VERY unusual if I was stopped for anything other than an act of blatant stupidity on the road, or the officer in question was an associate (I went to school with most of the Caernarfon based police, or at least one relative of most of them) - Small town!