[Snowball]

Last night, on TV news, the subject arose again regarding the government subsidising the promotion for buying a new car by scrapping their old one. The figure of £2,000 was suggested, and it was pointed out that some EU governments had already gone down this route.
Several things need to be considered as to why this idea doesn't seem to appeal to the UK government.
For a start, the UK does not have any UK-owned production car companies.
At what age/value would a car be scrapped?
How many ordinary folk could take up this option for a £2,000 cashback on a new car from the government?

I have recently changed my 4-year old, low mileage car for another similar model. The trade-in value was £5,000 and, even with a very good deal from the dealership (and with a manufacturer's reduction), I still had to find around £10,000.
In these uncertain times, everyone is faced with the spectre of losing their job, so it would hardly make sense to scrap their current car if it is reliable, probably have to take out HP payments and risk repossession, and end up with no car at all.

When the economy appeared to be on a roll, people in the UK were frequently pilloried over their excessive credit debt. So it would hardly make sense to extend the debt during a recession.

[ficklejade]

Totally agree with your final para conclusion, Snowball. Well done for putting it so succinctly.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by ficklejade

Totally agree with your final para conclusion, Snowball. Well done for putting it so succinctly.

ficklejade, I am but an ordinary bod. If my comments make sense to folk around me, perhaps we should be really frightened by the antics of those who control the public purse.

Regards, Snowball.

[southwest_dave]

On the subject of scrapping cars for greener possibly electric cars.. I Wonder if you could possibly charge up from home too? Or will petrol stations in many years to come be turned into ‘ecoStations’ and yu have to visit there, would be intresting if you could charge up from home say via a special connecting pack from a socket.. but then again i suppose it depends on the power coming through the lines. I know this is many years away but worth imagining what it be like :rolleyes:

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by southwest_dave

On the subject of scrapping cars for greener possibly electric cars.. I Wonder if you could possibly charge up from home too? Or will petrol stations in many years to come be turned into ‘ecoStations’ and yu have to visit there, would be intresting if you could charge up from home say via a special connecting pack from a socket.. but then again i suppose it depends on the power coming through the lines. I know this is many years away but worth imagining what it be like :rolleyes:

When that day arrives, you will obviously be able to charge up the car at home. There will also be a multitude of charging points. I would bet even the supermarkets will get in on the act: "X-amount of free electric when one spends over £50"

Depending on battery technology by that time, there could be a downside. If the cost of battery manufacture/disposal/repeated recharging doesn't reduce the amount of generated CO2 compared to fossil fuels, then the environment could be no better off, but with the added disadvantage of extra landfill (spent battery remains) to cope with.
The old adage of one step forward and two steps back springs to mind.

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Depending on battery technology by that time, there could be a downside. If the cost of battery manufacture/disposal/repeated recharging doesn't reduce the amount of generated CO2 compared to fossil fuels, then the environment could be no better off, but with the added disadvantage of extra landfill (spent battery remains) to cope with.
The old adage of one step forward and two steps back springs to mind.

I agree.

People always talk about electric vehicles as if they will stop pollution but, In reality the pollution is just somewhere else at the power station not to mention the lost enery of changing one form of energy to another.

For a start, Raw fuel into electric will result in about 20% energy loss, Then some of that will be lost in resistance of cables and transformers (dispersed as heat) then, the battery charger to charge the car will waste about another 10% or more of the electric it uses (again as heat)......Not so great after all.

Couple all that with low miles per re-charge and hours to recharge a battery. Not such an exciting idea I think.

[sabber]

As some alreay said, the industry needs all the help it can get. However, does anyone really think £2000 will be enough to persuade someone to buy a new car? Those who run a 10-year old can hardly afford a new one?

[southwest_dave]

Originally Posted by sabber

As some alreay said, the industry needs all the help it can get. However, does anyone really think £2000 will be enough to persuade someone to buy a new car? Those who run a 10-year old can hardly afford a new one?

exactly i am only on £18k a year and drive a 10 year old fiesta, and i can afford that (just) But with the lower end earners on say 12k - a year how they hell they goner afford a new car. i think they should have 'tiers' so those that need help the most (with proof) should get more money off.. they wouldnt do it as it costs money but worth saying it. ;)

[Rolebama]

I can buy a 10yr old car, run it for three years, include all the running costs, and still come out quids in compared to most new cars depreciation over the same period. If you add the same running cost inluding the interest to pay to the *****ce house, why would I want to buy a new one? I see a car as a means of getting from A to B, with a compromise of cost and comfort.
**Autocensor has attacked again. The missing work is relevant to where most people get the money to buy their new car.**

[Snowball]

It is true that, for most people who run a 10 year old car (which is the minimum age for a car that qualifies for the scheme), the amount of the balance is too costly. The obvious answer would be to allow the big franchised dealerships to offer good used cars up to 5 years old. Unfortunately, that would not support the scheme's purpose to energise new-car production.

What the government has failed to understand is that embarking on a new car is a luxury for the vast majority of ordinary folk.

In times of belt-tightening by the masses, cars are only one item in the chain of a drop in demand. And purchasing any car is a very low priority if the existing one is reliable. For ordinary people, it could be argued that subsidising the fitting of a new kitchen, a new bathroom, a new central-heating system, etc., would be more practical. These industries also have workers in need of continual employment.

I believe that focussing on the car giants is mostly to do with union pressures and the ballot box.

[Rolebama]

The aspect of this which I find most worrying is that most of the new cars sold here are imported, and we have too many foreign manufacturers with plants in this country. So it doesn't really matter if the car is built here or not, the proceeds from a new car eventually end up as a loss of money to this country. How does sending money abroad help our economy?? The argument about keeping employment here doesn't wash either, as every manufacturer will look for highest profit, which is why there are car plants in China, Korea, Africa etc etc.

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

The aspect of this which I find most worrying is that most of the new cars sold here are imported, and we have too many foreign manufacturers with plants in this country. So it doesn't really matter if the car is built here or not, the proceeds from a new car eventually end up as a loss of money to this country. How does sending money abroad help our economy?? The argument about keeping employment here doesn't wash either, as every manufacturer will look for highest profit, which is why there are car plants in China, Korea, Africa etc etc.

I agree entirely! There is no British owned car manufacturers.

The only thing that I can see is if people get new cars on F i n a nce it will help the f i n a nce companies. I can't see any other gains for the British companies.

The filter doesn't like that word :D

[Snowball]

To survive through most economic downturns, a country needs its manufacturing base. Even with a fall in demand and, although unemployment may increase, on average there will be the greater number of the population still in work.
But Britain has become a country of finance and service industries. This limits the spectrum for highly skilled people, and at the same time puts a large section of the workforce into a vast army with a limited range of jobs in demand.
A broad manufacturing base is where the earning power is. The majority of people in this country have divided into two groups; the high fliers of the financial world, who do not need subsidising to buy their cars, and the masses who cannot afford to buy a new car, even with the £2,000 scrappage subsidy.

As has already been observed, most cars bought in Britain are of foreign manufacture. So, although it may help out franchised UK dealerships, actual car manufacturing gains would go abroard. The crumbs of this might go to UK component manufacturers; but most companies multi-source their purchase of components from countries both inside and outside the UK, so even here, with a cut back in demand, the car manufacturers are very likely to prioritise their reduced requirements from sources in their own countries.

Although the government did not expound on this point, I believe that is what they were thinking about when the urge was made for the EU countries not to withdraw into their own borders.
And I also believe it was lip service to making it look as if some effort was being made, rather than expecting it to really happen.

Regards, Snowball.

[kbarnett]

£2k not enough

I own a 1995 2.8TD 4x4 and a 1995 Mercedes E320 Coupe. I wouldn't scrap either to exchange for a new euro tin box that will according to ***** today depreciate on average by £2k over 88 days.
Both are cheap to insure, I don't mind if the 4x4 gets scratched in a supermarket carpark and if I want to have fun I've got a Yamaha MT-01 1700 v-twin.
If I added up the current value of all three it would still be less than a boring new Ford Focus and I know which I would rather have.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by kbarnett

I own a 1995 2.8TD 4x4 and a 1995 Mercedes E320 Coupe. I wouldn't scrap either to exchange for a new euro tin box that will according to ***** today depreciate on average by £2k over 88 days.
Both are cheap to insure, I don't mind if the 4x4 gets scratched in a supermarket carpark and if I want to have fun I've got a Yamaha MT-01 1700 v-twin.
If I added up the current value of all three it would still be less than a boring new Ford Focus and I know which I would rather have.

Each to his own. I have a VW Touran, and this does everything that we demand from it. It's reliable, comfortable, economical, and carries a 5 star rating for passenger safety.

I would not exchange my Touran for all your vehicles put together, but I am happy for you to be having fun with what are, rightfully, your choice of vehicles.

Regards, Snowball.

[ficklejade]

I think that Snowball's comment about one's personal choice of vehicles raises another valid point - if one's personal vehicle choice has been made for specific reasons (in my case, fit for purposes - my requirements have already been given), then, if there is no other alternative, why scrap a good old car?

[Snowball]

Predictably, the scrappage scheme is already in disarray. Dealerships are informing buyers due to collect their cars this Monday that they will be unable to do so.

According to the press, dealerships say there is a problem with government paperwork, and the government are denying this.
Par for the course, then.

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Predictably, the scrappage scheme is already in disarray. Dealerships are informing buyers due to collect their cars this Monday that they will be unable to do so.

According to the press, dealerships say there is a problem with government paperwork, and the government are denying this.
Par for the course, then.

Well, It is going to be like all government schemes isn't it? Unnecessarily weighted down by excessive paper work and red tape to the point where it becomes a burden.

[RoverPaul]

Scrap or not to scrap

Hi all, this is my 1st entry here and to any forum so be gentle with me::D

I own a 1991 Rover 216 auto (Honda engine & auto box) with just over 115,000 miles on the clock, which has been in the family since it first sipped unleaded. I am the 2nd owner (after my brother)

Its been very reliable in the 10 years I have owned it and I have no intention of scrapping the car.
Unfortunately many a reliable classic car may go to the motorway in the sky thanks to this £2000.00 incentive but as other members have stated, that carrot will get people into debt and there is quite enough of that around at the moment.

The RAC introductory Forum stated older cars are more likely to pollute, but as long as a car is serviced as per handbook, this statement is not true.

Another point I have picked up is that some manufacturers have increased the base cost of each car in order to claw back their part of the deal so cars cost more now than back in the autumn.

[ficklejade]

Hi, RoverPaul, and a warm welcome!

You won't have had time to figure out why I'm not in the best frame of mind tonight but, after recent experiences, if it works don't swap it!

My late hubby and I ran a series of old Alfas and, providing you have a source of genuine or good alternative spares and can do a bit of work yourself, stick with it. Unlike new goods in the majority of categories, that have a built-in shelf life, older articles by and large, including cars, were built to last. For example, I have a freezer approaching 34 years old that uses the same amount of electricity as the modern one two years old that's broken down twice!

Just my own opinion and appreciate other's have different views - keep us informed!

FJ :)

[smudger]

Hi RoverPaul, welcome to the site, if you have a look around in these threads you will find quite a few posts about this subject. One point about it being is that they are making a lot of conditions with this scraping scheme:confused:
Cheers, Smudger.

[Bikerbill]

I think the scrappage scheme is a load of nonsense. For instance, my friend took his 12 year old Corsa to a dealer with the view to buying a new people carrier. He was told that they would not accept his old car under the scrappage scheme because his old car had only 1 week's MOT left. I would have thought that cars being scrapped did not need an MOT