M25 Variable Speed Camera J29

20-03-19 08:37

7238 views

I was travelling from J28 to J29 on the M25, approaching the speed camera gantry which was showing as 50 but changed to 40 just as I went under it. I didn't have time to adjust down to 40 in time and was flashed, I was in the inside lane and thought that it would be one of the vehicles in the other 3 lanes. It wasn't, I was clocked at 48 in a 40 mph zone. This is unfair, as otherwise I would have had to have braked sharply and dangerously, outside of an emergency situation. Before I accept my Motorway Awareness course, could I contest this in court?

17 Replies

Santa

20-03-19 11:41

According to Highways England; "following a change in the speed displayed by signal(s) there is a 60 second ‘grace period’ before HADECS3 cameras start enforcement, giving time for drivers to adapt to the new mandatory speed limit. This is to prevent cars from braking sharply."

Your dilemma is that to prove that there was no 60-second delay and then contest it in court, is likely to be expensive. A <£100 charge and a half-day speed awareness course may look like a bargain in comparison.

simonballred

03-04-19 05:06

It does seem rather unfair indeed.

My fist reaction though would be that you may have misjudged the signage however, as i've never seen the signs change and flash people so quickly before. If anything, it takes a rather long time for the gantries instructions to punish people as many seem to ignore 50-60 warnings for quite a distance.

However, if what you say is true then it would be hard to prove. Perhaps some sort of dashcam footage showing the speed change?

Snowball

03-04-19 09:21

I think the OP has got it wrong in calling them 'variable speed cameras'. These are speed cameras which check the average speed of a vehicle between two or more camera locations, to decide whether or not a prosecution is in order. The correct description for the camera in question is 'variable speed limit camera'.
I understand the Highways England explanation "to prevent cars from braking sharply". What I would question is this: If a vehicle passes under a speed limit sign, and then that limit changes just as the driver loses view of the sign, (a) is the 60-seconds grace accurate in all cases, and (b) does the next sign always come into view before the 60 seconds are up?

Santa

03-04-19 10:34

Originally Posted by Snowball

If a vehicle passes under a speed limit sign, and then that limit changes just as the driver loses view of the sign, (a) is the 60-seconds grace accurate in all cases

Who knows? No doubt they would say it is always accurate; but even if it was 10 seconds out, at 50mph, you will have travelled well over 1,300 metres in 50 seconds.

(b) does the next sign always come into view before the 60 seconds are up?

I am not sure how this matters. Each sign should be taken individually, even though they are only supposed to step down to avoid a sudden drop from [say] 70 to 30.

Beelzebub

03-04-19 11:06

Originally Posted by Snowball

I think the OP has got it wrong in calling them 'variable speed cameras'. These are speed cameras which check the average speed of a vehicle between two or more camera locations, to decide whether or not a prosecution is in order. The correct description for the camera in question is 'variable speed limit camera'.
I understand the Highways England explanation "to prevent cars from braking sharply". What I would question is this: If a vehicle passes under a speed limit sign, and then that limit changes just as the driver loses view of the sign, (a) is the 60-seconds grace accurate in all cases, and (b) does the next sign always come into view before the 60 seconds are up?

No, they are not average speed cameras, which operate as you describe over the distance between two cameras.. Those which caught the OP measure the instantaneous speed as the vehicle passes the gantry.

'Variable speed cameras' is arguably a misnomer; 'cameras to enforce a variable speed limit' would be more accurate, though a bit of a mouthful.

Cwalkerbeng

17-08-19 17:22

Originally Posted by molones01;n21103

I was travelling from J28 to J29 on the M25, approaching the speed camera gantry which was showing as 50 but changed to 40 just as I went under it. I didn't have time to adjust down to 40 in time and was flashed, I was in the inside lane and thought that it would be one of the vehicles in the other 3 lanes. It wasn't, I was clocked at 48 in a 40 mph zone. This is unfair, as otherwise I would have had to have braked sharply and dangerously, outside of an emergency situation. Before I accept my Motorway Awareness course, could I contest this in court?

The same thing happened to me on 16.08.2019, I joined this group specifically as I saw I'm not the only one that is likely to be wrongly charged. It flashed me as I was approaching the gantry that said 40mph but the previous gantry stated 50mph, I'm no genious but I thought the speed limit applies at and beyond the order sign not before it?? The camera that detects the vehicle is actually before the gantry that states the limit so if this is set at the speed limit ahead then surely that is incorrect? I don't know how these cameras work but something is diffinately off with this section of motorway and if I receive the notice I will certainly be contesting it. Good luck

Cwalkerbeng

17-08-19 17:26

Cwalkerbeng

17-08-19 17:28

Motman

17-08-19 18:04

You’re obviously having the same problem as me when making a post and not seeing it afterwards!

Drivingforfun

17-08-19 19:58

I’m still getting the same problem as you Motman

Snowball

18-08-19 10:47

I have noticed that my post can take a few seconds before the screen refreshes and my new post appears. Could the delay be linked to broadband speed, and affecting some posters more than others? Perhaps waiting a bit longer would avoid unnecessarily repeat posting.

Guest

wagolynn

21-08-19 15:33

Are you getting a box labelled working, after you have pressed 'Post Reply'?

Trainman

29-08-19 11:15

This delay is the 60 secs for you to slow down posting on here and nothing to do with the useless updated new system. Expect a fine in the post ( Not Royal Mail post either)