[jamesatnumber8]

I live in Central Scotland and was shopping in an out of town Supermarket whose carpark entry and exit lanes to and from the main road are controlled by traffic lights. On trying to exit the carpark today I was confronted by a long queue of cars also trying to get on to the main road but the traffic light was stuck on Red. We waited for about 10 minutes before someone approached the lead car and obviously suggested going through the Red light when it was safe to do so. The car did exactly that and the rest of us followed. I reported the fault to the police who were very helpful in promising to notify the roads department. But when I asked what the legal position is re. going through an obviously dysfunctional red light I was given a cold shoulder response. And I cannot find any useful guidance on the web. So here I am asking what should we do if it happens again. Thanks.

[Rolebama]

Believe it or not, you are not supposed to pass through a red light at all. As far as I know, it is down to the Police to have them turned off until repaired, and if necessary send a PC to control traffic, and in the meantime, as a motorist, you are expected to wait for this to happen. I would add though, that when I have come across a similar scenario, I allow commonsense to dictate that I pass through, although as you say, with a great deal of caution.

[Snowball]

The legal position is that you are not allowed to go through a red light under any circumstances. For this to be workable, the police, or any authorised body, would need to respond immediately; not sit behind a desk and bleat out what the law is, like some numbskull woodentop.

With all the hyped-up technology, such as average speed cameras that can link up and automatically penalise the offender, wouldn't you think that traffic signals could be designed to detect a fault, switch all lights to amber, and transmit a signal to the control centre to notify them of the problem.

The only difference that I can see is that one facility earns revenue, whilst the other does not, and is only beneficial to drivers.

Apologies for the cynicism.
Regards, Snowball.

[MrDanno]

I remember reading a story about an american woman who was reported missing and was eventually found sitting at a red light in a remote area because they were faulty and she didn't want to go thru a red light.

I must admit, If I was at a red light that was stuck and had camera's I would not go thru unless there was Police there to wave me thru.
I would also make an exact note of the time, Place and a Policemans number just incase I got an NIP in the post.

[smudger]

When driving to an emergency with the blues and twos on, we had to treat red lights as give ways, but we were just as liable if an accident was to happen while going through them.
Cheers, Smudger.

[phils landy]

You waited 10 minutes! Stuff that, i'd be through in 2! We have lives to live!

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by phils landy

You waited 10 minutes! Stuff that, i'd be through in 2! We have lives to live!

I don't know if that was meant to come out as it sounds, but my first reaction was that it displayed impatience.

You say you have lives to live; well, a lack of extreme caution when disregarding a red traffic signal could easily be the end of someone else's life.

I appreciate that there are varying levels of safety, and there must be occasions when crossing through red could be construed as safe. But it is still legally an offence.

My reply is tempered by an occurrence of little more than two hours ago. I'd had cause to use public transport. An elderly woman got on the bus, and was taking a seat as it moved off. But an impatient driver switched lanes right in front of the bus, causing him to brake hard. The woman was pitched forwards and crashed head first into a front panel of the bus. She had hurt her head, and her teeth were bloody from where she had bitten into her lips. It also transpired that she was subject to epilepsy.
An ambulance was called, and I suppose we will shortly be required to provide statements. The cause of the accident (the selfish driver) carried on unscathed by what he had caused. The bus driver had no chance to get the registration, but he said he hoped that one of the bus cameras snapped him. I sincerely hope so too.

The situation may be different, but the theme is the same; impatience.

Regards, Snowball.

[Watcher]

Red Lights

You may pass a red traffic light on red ONLY if directed to do so by a PC in uniform.

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by MrDanno

I remember reading a story about an american woman who was reported missing and was eventually found sitting at a red light in a remote area because they were faulty and she didn't want to go thru a red light.

I must admit, If I was at a red light that was stuck and had camera's I would not go thru unless there was Police there to wave me thru.
I would also make an exact note of the time, Place and a Policemans number just incase I got an NIP in the post.

I have done exactly as the American lady did - sat at red lights for a long period of time! Now these were roadworks traffic lights (mandatory speed limits in force) and were fairly major (checked route prior to leaving), plus I couldn't see the end of them. So I sat! After half an hour, (no mobile reception btw - not even using 112), I flagged down one of the oncoming vehicles (regular lorry driver) and asked him to report situation. Bless the man's heart, he pulled over at layby with phone and passed on message. Never knew his name, but did write company to ask that my sincere thanks were passed on!

But I was sat there for nearly 1 hour 10 minutes and it is unnerving! Far more unnerving to meet something coming the other way when you'd gone through a red light though!

[roadhog]

If the traffic control is defective, then no offence is commited.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by roadhog

If the traffic control is defective, then no offence is commited.

Have you found that stipulation in any authoritative document? Would any authority give drivers in general carte blanche clearance to decide for themselves when a red traffic signal is faulty?

[roadhog]

Hi Snowball, yes you are correct as technically it is an absolute offence to contravene the stop line by proceeding on red, apologies. However these things can and do happen, one can't wait forever and a day and a decision must be made. Once one ascertains that the lights are faulty, then I would proceed through the lights cautiously taking care not to inconveniece any other road user who may be proceeding through on green, bearing in mind that there is no defence in the event of an accident. To be successful any prosecution should prove that the lights were working correctly at the time of the offence before proceeding.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by roadhog

Hi Snowball, yes you are correct as technically it is an absolute offence to contravene the stop line by proceeding on red, apologies. However these things can and do happen, one can't wait forever and a day and a decision must be made. Once one ascertains that the lights are faulty, then I would proceed through the lights cautiously taking care not to inconveniece any other road user who may be proceeding through on green, bearing in mind that there is no defence in the event of an accident. To be successful any prosecution should prove that the lights were working correctly at the time of the offence before proceeding.

Roadhog, I fully agree with what you say. At some point it has to be obvious that the lights have stuck. Then, the only course is to do exactly as you describe.

I still find it annoying that, with modern technology already having the necessary facilities, and if the powers-that-be are really interested in road safety, just why aren't traffic signals provided with a time period which will detect a fault and automatically set all the junction lights to amber? I know that traffic signals can be set to change their timing for different times of the day. The fault detection would just need to be set for say 3 minutes longer that the maximum time-change sequence.

[phils landy]

why dont you get on to the makers of these traffic lights and suggest such an idea then?

its all well and good ranting and raving about it but what about actualy doing something about it.:confused::confused: sounds like a plan to me!

phil.:D:D:

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by roadhog

If the traffic control is defective, then no offence is commited.

I cannot find this anywhere. Please post referencing documents.

It would also be fair to point out that those of us in the Highlands and Islands (and very possibly other more rural areas of the rest of Britain) are not unfamiliar with a hour's delay on major roadworks. True, this is less common now than in year's gone by, but it still happens! And, of course, not being in any way important in Britain - even on a major trunk road - such delays are never reported on the precious media! In fact, being Scotland, little seems to get reported in advance - mates were delayed for over two hours on M74 southbound by wide load on Friday - they had checked four major traffic sources and nothing.

Back to red traffic lights, around here, you do not presume that they are faulty. You may suspect they are but I'm not willing to bet my life and that of any passengers I may have on a suspicion! Nor, if there is no mobile phone coverage or inconsistent coverage, can you get assistance.

[mills705]

bumping this up for some thoughts!
Tonight coming back from work I encountered a strange situation! There are some roadworks at a miniroundabout close by to where I work. This has lead to those portable traffic lights.
On my way to work all seems fine and coming the opposite way was stopped at the lights which were on red! 4 hours later and I come home, (bowt 30mins ago!) and the lights are out.
Now this isnt unusual IMO- sometimes they only have them working to control large amounts of traffic etc! But the roadworks were covering one side of the road as they are replacing some pipe I think.
I wait at the lights, creeping foward trying to see what on earth is going on. I was able to crawl foward enough to see two Taxi's coming down so I was able to get out of their way!
As i reversed back I double checked that the lights were out- they were.
What would people do here?

[Rolebama]

In the event of traffic lights out of order, I treat the junction as everyone having the right of way, and cross very cautiously. I will say that most of the traffic lights controlled junctions around here have failed at one time or another, and the traffic has 'seemed' to flow better.

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

In the event of traffic lights out of order, I treat the junction as everyone having the right of way, and cross very cautiously. I will say that most of the traffic lights controlled junctions around here have failed at one time or another, and the traffic has 'seemed' to flow better.

I have often noticed this at traffic lights that have failed.

[davey_g]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

In the event of traffic lights out of order, I treat the junction as everyone having the right of way, and cross very cautiously. I will say that most of the traffic lights controlled junctions around here have failed at one time or another, and the traffic has 'seemed' to flow better.

That's certainly true around here, Basingstoke, where the dimwits, sorry, planners seem to think it's sensible to put traffic lights on roundabouts which used to function perfectly well as they were designed to. The lights cause more tailbacks, more stopping thus presumably increasing pollution. When they're out of order, the traffic flow is much more efficient, but still they don't learn; they're busy ruining, sorry, improving another roundabout now. They could at least consider part time lights but no...arrive at them at 2am with no traffic around and they'll probably stop you, for no-one!

[Rolebama]

I guarantee I have to stop everytime I arrive at two roundabouts with traffic lights, one on A1(M) junction A414, and at J5 M1 where I come off. This is a regular occurrence between midnight and 2am when I normally use them.

[98selitb]

In a situation where traffic lights are frozen on red, is it possible to drive slowly enough past a red light that it won't 'notice' the movement and won't flash you? E.g. if you crawl along at a few centimetres per second, much less than walking pace?

[Rolebama]

There used to be one at the Master Brewer junction on the A40 at Hillingdon. When I worked with the AA, I had to recover a vehicle from the lights. During the time it took me to load it, the sensor took almost 20 pictures. Just my walking on foot triggered it. So, in the situation you describe, I would be inclined to contact the local Police for guidance.
**There used to be a clause that allowed you to pass a red light if not to do so would cause an accident, but I can find no reference for it now.**

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by MrDanno

I have often noticed this at traffic lights that have failed.

I too have noticed this in my days down sarf in a city - the majority drove with more courtesy and consideration and caution and traffic did flow more easily.

However the points made about temporary traffic lights are also relevant. These are usually to do with roadworks and when half the road is dug up. Proceeding with caution is not a good idea under those circumstances when you can't see the end of the restriction.