[Snowball]

Hi. Last Sunday, a car ran into my rear on the A34 near Oxford (at the Kidlington roundabout to be precise). It wasn't a sudden shunt. I was waiting for several cars to clear from my right. As the last one passed, and I was about to move forewards (in the outside lane and turning right) I was hit by a Ford Fiesta; and quite severely.
Without getting out of his car, the driver indicated to pull into the lefthand bus lane; a logical move when considering the dangers of hanging around for long in the middle of the A34.
As I was getting back into my car, this driver swung around me and made off in the direction of Oxford. A following motorcyclist witnessed the incident, and was kind enough to give his address as a witness.
The police were called, and told me that the vehicle was registered to a Bolton address. Early signs are that the vehicle is probably uninsured and will not be traced.

It is a Blue Ford Fiesta, registration number M83 DHT

There have been reports that the number of illegal drivers on our roads is now in seven figures (one million plus). These people will usually be disqualified or untested drivers, and very likely to be driving unroadworthy vehicles. They are killers, as certain as if they were carrying weapons, and must be found and dealt with if our roads are to have any chance of being made safer.

[smudger]

Sorry to hear about that Snowball, was anyone hurt and was there much damage to your car?
Seems weird that the police cant find it, they seem to find plenty other motorists for more trivial offences:rolleyes:
Cheers, Smudger.

[tommytwotanks]

my old man, had one of these, must be 20 years a go now, his was rear ended at a roundabout too, the chap said it would be better to go to the local police station, my dad said ok, but then the guy said that he didn't know where it was, as my dad did, he offered to show him the way, you know what im going to say here, the first opportunity that this guy had he took a turning and was gone, dad gave the police the reg number of the escort van, turned out to be a false reg number, the police reckoned that it belonged to the travelling community, :(

[MrDanno]

There are website's which will check details for you for a minimal fee of around £3 and if it is your own vehicle it can check if it's insured for free ;)

Just a thought but, I thought the RAC did insurance checks for members that were involved in accidents?

[Rolebama]

Sorry to read that post, Snowball. Hope all OK.
How is it though, that a letter can be sent to the last registered keeper demanding driver details over a £60 speeding penalty, yet when these characters cause thousands of pounds worth of damage through actions like this, the Police make all the right noises, but actually do nothing to help resolve the issue?

[Snowball]

Thanks for all your comments; very much appreciated.
My car is just 2 months old, and the whole ABS? bottom rear end and offside rear light cluster will have to be replaced. We were halfway through our first caravan break of this year when it happened.
Fortunately, no critical items were damaged, and the towbar assembly was not affected; I obtained a cursory check and confirmation from the local VW dealership that it was OK.

Luckily we were "shaken but not stirred", and carried on to complete our holiday; didn't intend to lose out twice to the despicable wretch who has given us this grief.

I have to admit that we, too, have this awful feeling that the police will throw in the towel. I know they are hard pushed in many aspects of their jobs, and detection of these illegal drivers is difficult. But the real dangers on the roads are the illegal drivers, and their numbers are on the increase. They are as dangerous as criminals carrying weapons, and eradicating them is a priority if our roads are ever to become safer.

The hassle of sorting out the damage to my car is bad enough, but the thing that really angers me is that this man sped off without any thought that someone could have been injured and in need of urgent medical aid. Undetected, he will continue to place further lives of innocent road users in danger, and that alone demands urgent changes to the law in how vehicles can be transferred to new owners without being "lost" in the system.

Regards, Snowball.

[98selitb]

Very sorry to hear of this Snowball. Glad you were not injured and were able to continue your holiday. It's terrible that they will take all the effort in the world to track you down to give you a ticket for overstaying your stay in a car park by 5 minutes, but let such menaces like these get away time and time again. Even if it might be unlikely, I do hope that the guy who hit you is caught, taken off our roads and dealt with appropriately.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by 98selitb

Very sorry to hear of this Snowball. Glad you were not injured and were able to continue your holiday. It's terrible that they will take all the effort in the world to track you down to give you a ticket for overstaying your stay in a car park by 5 minutes, but let such menaces like these get away time and time again. Even if it might be unlikely, I do hope that the guy who hit you is caught, taken off our roads and dealt with appropriately.

Until effective measures are taken to get these people of the road, such types of crime (it is a crime) will continue to regularly occur. I am now just one of the statistics who have now joined the ranks of this substantial number of unfortunate drivers.

I suppose I will have to pay my excess (my NCB is protected), but I have no intention of allowing the incident to detract from my enjoyment of driving.
I will probably be more alert to spotting any suspicious tax discs (or their absence) as I go about my daily routines, and be prepared to draw police attention to anything that I am convinced is suspicious.

[ficklejade]

Truly sorry to hear about this Snowball, but thankful that there were no injuries and you could continue on your holiday.

I sincerely hope that the Police don't chuck in the towel - as you say, these people are potential killers.

We all owe a vote of thanks to that motorcyclist who had the decency to stop and offer to be your witness; we need more like him, not the other scum.

How bad was the other car? Even if it's found abandoned (and not burned out), maybe the police can find some clues? I know you're on holiday and you've all the repairs and insurance claim to sort but keep at the police - you're the one who's suffering, not the person who hit you.

Good luck,
FJ

[Snowball]

Many thanks to all the well-wishers on this topic.
You may find the following new details interesting.
Yesterday I played around on the DVLA "Vehicle Enquiry" website, and found that the offending vehicle is taxed until end of May 2009, based the site last being updated on 21/04/2009.
This morning, I entered the vehicle reg. number into one of the websites, and it showed the vehicle to be stolen.
The hit-and-run took place late afternoon on Sunday, 26 April 2009. The attending officer told me the vehicle was registered in Bolton, but being stolen was not mentioned.
Now this is the interesting part:
I spoke to the Thames valley police this morning (5/5/09). They said that there were no further developments, but still did not mention that it was reported as stolen.

Strange things afoot indeed.

Regards, Snowball.

[MrDanno]

Obviously the owner has reported it as stolen from his driveway because his not got insurance!

A very similar thing happened to my father many years ago. A car hit my fathers parked car at high speed causing enough damage to write the car off. The offending car was found not far away parked and securely locked - Apparently it had been stolen from the owners driveway and yet was not reported as stolen until after the accident!

I wish you the best possible chance of getting this sorted but, I'm sorry to say I don't think you will get anywhere.

[Rolebama]

Snowball, I think it might be a good idea the get the ball rolling and send the registered keeper a letter pointing out that you hold them responsible for damage to your car. If you wait till the Police get their act together, it may be past the time you can do anything. If you are not happy to do this, maybe get your insurer to check whether the car was insured at the time of your incident.
I am not at all surprised that the vehicle theft did not show on all Police computers. There are a number of cases now of insured cars having been crushed because their computers showed them as uninsured.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by Rolebama

Snowball, I think it might be a good idea the get the ball rolling and send the registered keeper a letter pointing out that you hold them responsible for damage to your car. If you wait till the Police get their act together, it may be past the time you can do anything. If you are not happy to do this, maybe get your insurer to check whether the car was insured at the time of your incident.
I am not at all surprised that the vehicle theft did not show on all Police computers. There are a number of cases now of insured cars having been crushed because their computers showed them as uninsured.

Rolebama, as the DVLA Vehicle Enquiry, which I accessed, shows the tax still effective until the end of May, and if the owner at the time of that tax period still legally owns the car, then that would seem to be a good idea. But I don't think the police would provide me with the keeper's details.

However, I do have an email address for the Thames Valley police (given on their Road Collisions report form), so I could send them a request for this information and inform my insurers of my actions. My insurers might be prepared to pressure the police for information. I'll let you know how I get on.

Regards, Snowball.

[eamonnschevy]

you can check your own insurance on this website ;)
http://www.askmid.com/ownvehicle/

but like you say probable uninsured,
the govenment/courts need to increase the fines for uninsured motorists to twice what the premium would be and crush the car that might be a deterrent for driving without insurance..

[Snowball]

Rolebama: Have sent the email to the police.

Eamonnschevvy: Old cars are cheap to obtain, so how do you keep a blatant miscreant from repeatedly going back onto the road?
Bans have no effect. If he is a traveller, and if they could track him down, they would certainly not find out if and where he kept any cash.
The only way to keep these cretins off the road is a very long prison sentence; until they are too frail to drive. And we are know that will never happen.

We have to face facts; the law-abiding motorists will always be paying out for these wasters.

Regards, Snowball.

[eamonnschevy]

sadly i think you could be right...
but in my area norfolk every night you read in the local paper someones been charged with no insurance and the average fine is only a few hundred pounds, whereas i pay over £1000 every year on our 3 cars peugeot 1007 ford focus cc and a sunday toy a supercharged chevy silverado ss, yet every time i go out in any of the cars i run the risk of being hit like the poster with an uninsured driver...if it was up to me i'd
give them a tag that gives them 240volts everytime they drive over 10 mph that would be a deterrent... but would be against their human rights.. what i say is what about our rights as law abiding drivers, who tax mot and insure our cars, i wish i could think of a method of keeping them off the road but sadly i fear while the punishment doesn't fit the crime it will continue

[Rolebama]

There is a very simple way of keeping them off the roads. Proper Policing of the Roads. If all the money spent on traffic-calming, cameras, CCTVs and the overseas jollies by our MPs was invested in proper policing of the roads, the numbers would never have risen to the current level.

[Snowball]

I learned this morning, from my insurers legal department, that they have to apply to the police in writing for such things as details of registered keeper. And they have to pay a fee to the police for this information.
So my chances of getting any information are well and truly stitched up!

But I have still sent an email to the police, and copied it to my insurers.

For Data Protection Act, read: Data Profiteering Act.

Regards, Snowball.

[98selitb]

Regarding that website provided by eamonnschevy.

Is it really illegal to check the details of someone else's car if it is with the genuine intention of detecting and reporting a crime?

I ask this because I read something on the news lately, where a couple were given an ASBO for having loud raves in their back garden. The couple argued that the way in which they were caught - by a neighbour putting a camcorder up on the garden fence and videoing them - was illegal as it invaded their privacy. The judge retorted that despite the privacy invasion, the neighbour was perfectly entitled to do this as it was with the express intention of 'detecting and reporting a crime'.

So if you saw a suspicious car on your street and had told the police about it but they weren't interested as there was no evidence of a crime, and you checked on that website despite the warnings that you should only check your own car, then you found it was indeed uninsured and reported it, would the police not do anything because you found this evidence 'illegally'? I think it should be allowed to check like this (if it isn't already, as with example above) if it is with the intention of detecting a crime.

[ficklejade]

Originally Posted by 98selitb

Regarding that website provided by eamonnschevy.

Is it really illegal to check the details of someone else's car if it is with the genuine intention of detecting and reporting a crime?

I ask this because I read something on the news lately, where a couple were given an ASBO for having loud raves in their back garden. The couple argued that the way in which they were caught - by a neighbour putting a camcorder up on the garden fence and videoing them - was illegal as it invaded their privacy. The judge retorted that despite the privacy invasion, the neighbour was perfectly entitled to do this as it was with the express intention of 'detecting and reporting a crime'.

So if you saw a suspicious car on your street and had told the police about it but they weren't interested as there was no evidence of a crime, and you checked on that website despite the warnings that you should only check your own car, then you found it was indeed uninsured and reported it, would the police not do anything because you found this evidence 'illegally'? I think it should be allowed to check like this (if it isn't already, as with example above) if it is with the intention of detecting a crime.

If you are going to video and/or record others, you are required to advise them that you are going to do so and they can object.

[Snowball]

When I accessed the DVLA Vehicle Enquiry website, there was a warning that it is illegal to collect data "without reasonable cause".
However, one of the "reasonable cause" examples was that of pursuing an unpaid parking fine. Therefore, as far as I am concerned, collecting information about a vehicle that has been used in a hit-and-run against me, that is a hugely more reasonable cause than an unpaid parking fine.

[bilsat]

Hit & Run

When I was hit while stationary I was lucky to have a towball fitted, this caused severe damage to the front of the car that hit me! My bumper was scratched....
Might be a useful addition to a vehicle!!

[MrDanno]

Originally Posted by bilsat

When I was hit while stationary I was lucky to have a towball fitted, this caused severe damage to the front of the car that hit me! My bumper was scratched....
Might be a useful addition to a vehicle!!

Written by Snowball in an early post........

Fortunately, no critical items were damaged, and the towbar assembly was not affected; I obtained a cursory check and confirmation from the local VW dealership that it was OK.

If he didn't have a towball I'd be interested to know how he tows his caravan. :D:p

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by MrDanno

Written by Snowball in an early post........

If he didn't have a towball I'd be interested to know how he tows his caravan. :D:p

The simple answer to that is that the towball on my car is detachable. In solo trim, there is no visible indication that the vehicle has towing facilities.

I have often thought about the occasional comment that, "the other car was damaged, but mine got away unscathed because I had a towball fitted".

In reality, there is a trade-off for this. With my vehicle, there is fairly tough, moulded rear bumper, and the actual towbar assembly is fitted somewhere forward of this. Had my towball been in place, and the following car hit it, the chances are that some damage would have transferred to the towbar assembly, causing under-chassis damage and would have rendered me incapable of towing my caravan home at the end of our holiday.
But, as is my standard practice, the towball is removed when I am not towing. So I was able to tow after the incident (confirmed at a local VW service dept), and the car that hit me was still badly damaged.

OK, the hit-and-run car may have been prevented from driving away if my towball had been in place, but he could have bolted on foot; at probably 40-years-old max., and me in my 70's, I would have been very unlikely to catch (or hold onto) him. And under the circumstances, if the vehicle is uninsured and not in the hands of the last-known keeper, the car would probably be of no more use being kept at the scene than just having the number plate details. But the towball not being fitted ensured retention of my vehicle's towing ability, and possibly less damage to my car.

As it is, there is no mechanical or metal bodywork damage; all that is required is the colour-matching and fitting of a new rear bumper, and a new tail-light cluster.

Another reason why I remove the towball is that, when parked at a supermarket carpark, or similar, a passing vehicle could side-swipe the towball and cause considerable damage.

Regards, Snowball.

[Rolebama]

I was rear-ended in an AA van, and superficial damage was light. It was decided that a new rear valance would be fitted for cosmetic reasons, and it was only when this was to be fitted, it was found that the floor pan was creased. At that time all AA repairs were done in-house, if it had been an insurance claim, it would have been written-off. The towbar had taken the brunt of the impact.

[MrDanno]

This is one of the reason's I don't like plastic bumpers. They can spring back out to shape leaving all kinds of damage hidden behind them.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by MrDanno

This is one of the reason's I don't like plastic bumpers. They can spring back out to shape leaving all kinds of damage hidden behind them.

My bumper did not spring back into shape; part of what "stuck out" now sticks in. And it was more of a glancing blow; the deformation of the Ford Fiesta's nearside wing (the hit-and-run vehicle) collapsing to partly "mould" its profile around the offside rear bumper of my car.

There is also a degree of space (or there was) behind the bumper, although the bodywork dept did admit that they will not be able to say the deformed bumper hasn't touched the hidden metalwork until the bumper is removed.

However, all four doors and tailgate still fit perfectly, with no detectable change in the gaps between the doors and bodywork. Also, there is a very substantial towbar mounted somewhere behind the bumper, and I think any contact with this and/or the body proper would have produced a noticeable aftermath.

I think "plastic" is the wrong word. It is obvious that, whatever the bumper is made from, it is immensely strong. I don't think a metal panel would have survived the blow as well as did the "plastic" panel.

[Snowball]

Car has gone in today for the repairs to be carried out.
£1,006 is the quoted figure, and this was accepted by my insurers. Personally, I had expected it to be quite a bit more. It is being done by the dealership's bodyshop, and the job will be as good as new.

After 55 years of driving, I have now become just one more statistic in the list of victims of car crime.

Ah, well, as Dell Boy says, "Onwards and upwards".

Regards, Snowball.

[Loony]

Just seen this thread.Sorry to hear about the accident.
Have you spoken to the Motor Insurers Bureau to see if you can claim for the excess.
I know you are in a disadvantaged position compared to cases where the other driver has been identified though.

[Snowball]

Hi, Loony.
The car went in yesterday for the repairs; should be ready by Wednesday. Thursday at latest.
My insurers's legal claims dept have sent me a form for a report of the accident, which i have completed. When the repairs are done, I have to send this report along with the receipt for my excess (£100), so I assume this is to do with claiming back the excess.

I am assuming that the legal claims dept will be dealing with the Motor Insurers Bureau, but it will probably be a good idea to confirm this when I next contact them.

I now know the feeling when something like this happens, and it sure ain't nice. Feels more like a personal attack than a motor accident.

After more than 50 years of driving, and hearing the frequency of this type of crime (it is a crime), I suppose I should consider myself fortunate that it hasn't happened before now.

Regards, Snowball.