Caught by the Congestion Camera

  • Benji's Avatar
    Just got a Penalty charge notice although I am certain I did not enter the zone. I was in St Johns Wood and going onto Westway. I checked on the C web site map and noted that the top of Gloucester Terrace & Ranelagh Bridge are out of the zone and are a link onto Westway. AS far as I could see I did not pass any sign indicating I entered the zone yet I have just received a £50 fine complete with a photograph. I can only assume that either the entry signs, cameras and their map are misleading. By accident or deliberate?

    Has anyone else being caught here If so it indicates that there is something wrong with the setup. And if not has anyone any suggestions as to my chances of an appeal?
    BENJI
  • 46 Replies

  • Alfa Romeo's Avatar
    Congestion charge on A40 slip roads

    Like Benji I have also been caught by the cameras on the slip road onto the A40 Westway. Before leaving home I checked on the Congestion Charge web site and from the map there it appears that one can access the slip road from the bottom of Warwick Avenue, under the flyover, onto the top of Gloucester Terrace and then over Ranelagh Bridge is outside the charging zone.

    I have subsequently looked at Google Earth which has a satellite picture, and when one compares that with the map (very hard to do) it still looks as if it is possible to get onto the Westway without entering the congestion charge zone from the bottom of Warwick Avenue and then round by the side of Paddington Station onto the flyover.

    TfLs website is very unclear and it is absurd that by travelling 500 meters through some slip roads onto the Westway that one should be charged for entering Central London!
  • Benji's Avatar
    Congestion Camera

    I was glad to see I was not the only one to be tricked into a penalty getting onto Westway. I did not even know I had entered the zone. Lets see if we get anymore people reply. I will have to do that route again with a camera photographing the route as we go and then contact Congestion Charging to check if we've entered the forbidden area even though we did not realise it. If it is obviously our mistake I would accept the fine but if not would take this up with a national daily. Would you or anyone else be with me? (No need to have our names published)
  • Green540's Avatar
    I too got caught out on Ranelagh Bridge/Gloucester Terrace taking the exact same route onto the Westway. That was on the 21st March. :(
  • ficklejade's Avatar
    Not specifically relevant to the location in the above threads, but what it is the situation if you are diverted into the Congestion Zone (in my niece's case as a result of an accident) to do three sides of a square to get round the blocked road? My niece had no idea she'd gone into the Zone but came home from a 2 week holiday to find a really nasty letter and bill. Her route would have been entirely outside the Zone bar for this diversion.

    She's not getting much joy with tfl so can anyone here please assist?
  • Benji's Avatar
    At last I got a reply from Transport for London who said we can only appeal a fine for the following reasons - You were not driving the car; The car had been sold; It was a hire car not driven by you; You had already paid the congestion charge. Maybe if the police directed the car into the zone because of an accident they may reconsider although there is no guarantee.

    They said that if we were visiting the St Johns Wood/Westway area we were under an obligation to check out the route before making the journey and continued to say that the boundaries had been extremely well publicised including the Internet. They said in their letter that they do not provide a route planning service and the charge free route is well signposted in the immediate area. They continue by saying the signs and marking at the boundary fulfil their obligations to drivers.

    If this is so why are people getting caught? I hope more people will add their message to those who have replied and I will again write to T for London and then if necessary to a national daily to get our complaint in print as I suspect this is a good ploy to add to the coffers of Transport for London!
  • tenpinn's Avatar
    i suggest you get evidence, download stuff from website and save stuff also go back there and tyake photos before its too late and they might add things in. do it as quick as possible so then you have more than number of people caught which could be worth more
  • ficklejade's Avatar
    benji thanks for info - more than my niece got!

    She has had confirmation today that the road was closed due to accident by police at the time she was intending to use it and got diverted. The accident happened 10mins before her arrival and diversion so there is no way (as she was en route and couldn't access external sources of info) she could be aware of the problem.
  • Benji's Avatar
    C Charges

    In answer to Tenpinn, I do intend doing that route again with my wife driving and me taking photographs. Unfortunately I don't live in London and I'm overseas at the moment so can't do this until after April 20th. Is anyone elso doing this route before? If so it would be good if they check it out again with a camera photographing the C marking in the road and any other signs. It's best to pay the charge rather than get another fine.
  • jjwestaway's Avatar
    Congestion charge : Ranelagh Bridge

    I too have just received a penalty notice for entering the Congestion Zone for 500metres. I was coming through Warwick Avenue to join the A40 westbound with the sole intention of getting OUT OF LONDON as swiftly as possible. I suspect that this is the intention of most who get caught by this camera - it is absurd that these roads are deemed part of the congestion zone in my opinion for this reason. I had no idea from the maps that this constituted part of the charging zone. I shall pay the £50 fine but would be happy to be part of any escalation of this to TFL
  • Flyingwise's Avatar
    ranelagh bridge gloucester terrace

    I too have been fined for travelling on this small section of road. Total joke...I check the C web site and was convinced Iwas out of the zone.

    Seems like a nice little earner for Ken and his money making machine:mad:
  • Suziebear's Avatar
    Congestion charge A40

    We also have been caught by a camera in Porchester Rd. My boyfriend was coming home from St Johns Wood where he had been working at a clients he has previously been employed by, and has been using this route for years. He came down Warwick Ave to the big roundabout at the bottom and did his usual, under the underpass, left, left and left again or whatever it is to get on to A40 out of town. He was working at this address on two occasions last week and now has a minimum of 2 £50 fines. From previous responses on this forum I think we are going to have to pay. I too have been onto TFL website and Google maps and it is totally unclear as to which is the route to take that avoids the big CC.
    Has Benji or anybody had success with TFL yet re getting them to waive their fines or would I be wasting my time??
  • Benji's Avatar
    Since I first reported the problem getting onto Westway I have been back after the 6PM deadline so as to check. They are clever in that you only realise you have entered the zone as you turn and it is too late to escape. If there is a lot of traffic you are more intent in safe driving than looking out for the C markings in the road. So that's how I got caught and so have a lot of other people.

    Maybe an organisation such as the RAC should protest but as individuals we've got no chance.
  • tenpinn's Avatar
    if enough indevudules group together maybe you can make a loud enough noise for them to listen, maybe worth a try and possible check other forums and such to find out just how big the problem is
  • Comstock's Avatar
    Ooh, lucky I stumbled across this thread- I was just planning a similar journey- M40/A40 into London, then park at Marble Arch to avoid the zone.

    Is there a 'safer' alternative route home from Marble Arch? The only one I can see is continuing up the Edgware Road, turning right up St Johns Wood Road , then right and right again.

    But IIRC that leads me into the path of the box junction camera that made the newspapers. .........
  • rab_c_nesbitt's Avatar
    err... if ye canna observe the road signs perhaps ye shoulnae be driving anyway - or am I missing something ????
  • Comstock's Avatar
    err... if ye canna observe the road signs perhaps ye shoulnae be driving anyway - or am I missing something ????

    Rab, you give your location as Fort William. Have you ever driven in London?

    In any event the TFL map of the zone appears to indicate the westway as a free route. In which case none of these people should have been given a ticket.
  • rab_c_nesbitt's Avatar
    Aye, for many years worked & lived in London - worked in the City, Off Oxford Street, Chiswick, Waterloo, etc. etc.. lived in Mortlake, Twickers, etc. etc.

    'sfunny how for some it must always be someone else's fault....

    And yoursell, ever driven in Fort William ???

    Serious suggestion.... get some more driving training (IaM or RoSPA for example..) and you'll likely be more observant of other road users & road signs...
    and if that way you avoid one RTA in 10 years or a couple of fines maybe come out ahead??? Unless one already knows "I'm a good driver...."

    Yours aye
  • Comstock's Avatar

    And yoursell, ever driven in Fort William ???

    Yes, actually :p Went to Oban and Skye for a fortnight a couple of years ago.....


    Anyway, I'm not quite sure what 'driver training' has to do with people getting fined on roads that don't form part of the C-zone.
  • Thomas Bostock's Avatar
    Ranelagh Bridge appeal

    IN THE PARKING AND TRAFFIC
    APPEALS TRIBUNAL CASE NO. 907035116


    BETWEEN

    DR THOMAS BOSTOCK Claimant

    AND

    TRANSPORT FOR LONDON Respondent


    APPELLANT’S SUBMISSION


    1. My appeal is made on the basis that no penalty is payable under the Charging Scheme, because I submit that the one-way slip-road in question cannot either properly or safely have been intended to be included in the congestion zone as extended earlier this year, and accordingly the warnings and signage were misleading, illogical and consequently misunderstood by significant numbers of motorists, including myself on three separate occasions for which penalty notices were issued.
    2. I have been driving along Gloucester Terrace for many years in order to obtain access to the Westway, because it was the only way to get on to the outbound carriageway when leaving London from the area north of the Paddington roundabout/flyover complex. It would not have been necessary for drivers to research a suitable alternative means of accessing the Westway when the Congestion Zone was extended, unless TfL had mistakenly included a short stretch of one-way slip-road by allowing the original slip-road to remain open, thus unwittingly “trapping†law-abiding drivers.
    3. There is no dispute as to Tfl’s duty under the regulations to give adequate warning of affected roads. It was not clear from the signs put in place that drivers would have to enter the Congestion Zone just for a few yards in order to get on to the Westway to drive out of London from outside the Zone. It is submitted that no such anomaly exists anywhere else within the Scheme. It is suggested that this anomaly may have resulted from a genuine and unwitting planning error on the part of TfL.
    4. Drivers cannot be responsible for planning errors under the Scheme. To have attempted to avoid the Zone at the point where the signage was placed or even worse, once already on the slip-road, would have constituted a clear and serious danger to fast-flowing traffic. Under these circumstances, it is submitted that the fault for any alleged breaches should be accepted by the Authorities (who have unfortunately chosen not to exercise their discretion, however, to waive the charges where it would be equitable to do so) but drivers should nevertheless not be penalised under the rules, and it is submitted that this and other similar appeals should therefore be allowed.
    Thomas Bostock
    25 June 2007
  • armand's Avatar
    Ranelagh Bridge

    Yes - I was caught there completely unawares the other week. Did you get off the fine?
  • Thomas Bostock's Avatar
    Appeal is pending, should be heard by mid-July. The more people who appeal, the more seriously this absurdity will be taken. However, since TfL essentially make the law, don't hold your breath!:rolleyes:
  • armand's Avatar
    Thank you, I have lodged an appeal today. Since it was not properly signposted, the CC should not be enforced on this stretch.
  • jmcooper's Avatar
    I too have received a demand relating to this small stretch of road "Ranelagh Bridge/Gloucester Terrace" whilst accessing Westway to travel out of London. I have always paid my CC in the past but was completely caught out by this as I thought that Westway was not in the new zone. It does seem to be an anomaly that you cannot access Westway from here - do they really want drivers to travel back into town and then drive around the block in order to access Westway via a right turn from Lisson Grove? Surely that will add to congestion/pollution rather than easing it!
    Anyway, I will appeal but am not holding my breath. I would support any campaign to remove this ridiculous, illogical and unfair anomaly.
  • bobbybray's Avatar
    Ranelagh Bridge / Gloucester Terrace

    I have just recieved a charge cert for the above also. I never recieved any previous notice and now it is a red notice and the charge is £150!
    Like the rest of you I was not aware of passing into the 'zone' but realised it was confusing and called and chatted through my journey with a tfl person on the phone when I returned home and decided that I hadn't passsed into it. Now a month and a half later, I have this charge.

    Did anyone have any luck with appeals, photos etc. My form says there is photo evidence of the contravention but I really think this is badly sighned and very confusing. Can the RAC help?? can anyone help?? Please.
  • bobbybray's Avatar
    Any news on the appeal yet?

    Appeal is pending, should be heard by mid-July. The more people who appeal, the more seriously this absurdity will be taken. However, since TfL essentially make the law, don't hold your breath!:rolleyes:
  • armand's Avatar
    Appeal

    I sent in my appeal and will be appearing in person on Saturday (8 Sep) to argue the case. I shall do so on the grounds that the signage is inadequate. If anyone thinks of anything in particular that might support the case, please email me.
  • bobbybray's Avatar
    your appeal

    Good Luck Armand. Let me know the outcome.
  • newswatch's Avatar
    I sent in my appeal and will be appearing in person on Saturday (8 Sep) to argue the case. I shall do so on the grounds that the signage is inadequate. If anyone thinks of anything in particular that might support the case, please email me.

    I presume you have seen the post from Thomas Bostock earlier in this thread?

    As others have said, good luck. I hope you have some experience of dealing with the legal profession!

    I am preparing my appeal document now on similar grounds. I need to do some more photography of the area, I do indeed wonder why the location of the contravention is given as Ranelagh Bridge / Gloucester Terrace when the entry point to the zone is Lord Hills Bridge as far as I recall?
  • Comstock's Avatar
    Where has this suddenly appeared from (linked from main page at www.cclondon.com)
    http://www.cclondon.com/downloads/A4...aps_270707.pdf

    ????

    Methinks they have had many complaints......