[Frownsmile]

I keep reading about ways to drive differently to reduce your fuel consumption and to go easier on your car. Things like hyper-miling - gentle acceleration, anticipating the road and blah blah!

I agree it's probably a good way to save money and I'd like to do it but it definitely doesn't come natural. I think I'm too old to change my driving style. Which is one part Nigel Mansell, one part limited by old banger vehicle!

How can I remember and change my driving style? Or can't I?

[Rolebama]

Depending on what car you drive, you may find a vacuum gauge useful.
The Mk2 Golf GTI had a useful little vacuum switch which illuminated a bulb if you were a bit too heavy footed. I have fitted these of a few cars over the years as visual reminders of wasting petrol.
Stronger accelerator return springs can also act as a 'reminder'.
Women friends also swear by driving barefoot, as it can hurt if you have to press too hard on a pedal.
Do not have upbeat music either on the radio or a CD.
If you are making a planned journey, allow more time for it, do not be dragged into having to stick to a schedule.
Personally, I have not changed my driving style, because I don't really have one. Depends on where I am going and why.

[Snowball]

I think most of us are capable of changing our driving style. It largely depends upon what the reason is for needing to change. Obviously, that style (is "style" the right word?) would have to fit inside the parameters of maintaining road safety, and preferably any change result in an improvement in safety.

Personally, I am self-critical by habit. If I make any mistake, not necessarily putting anyone at risk, I will think about why I did it.

We are caravanners, so I have to adjust my driving pattern depending on whether I am driving solo, or towing. Obviously, the vehicle behaves differently when the caravan is attached, and several manoeuvres possible without the van in tow, become a no-no with the van on the back.

A simple example is turning right into a road. The extra 22 feet of van must not be forgotten. Apart from much greater distance for vehicles approaching from both directions of the carriageway being entered, in the event of having to stop behind another vehicle after turning, the ability to clear the van out of the lane for traffic coming from the right, and any road opposite the turn, must be allowed for.

So, yes, it is possible to change your driving pattern (I like that word better).

[Tony Aston]

I give guidance to those who want to take the IAM Advanced Driving Test.

Yes it is possible to change the pattern of driving. As I have said in other posts, I gave a 26 year male guidance and suggested he drove 1 week the way he normally drives and 1 week driving according to my guidance. He returned with figures which showed his journey time was about 1 minute longer in a 22 minute drive but his fuel cosumption in his Clio Sport changed from 30 mpg in the first week to 38 mpg in the second week. Several other Associates have also commented their fuel consumtion improved by 10 to 15%

After further guidance, the journey time reduced to less than 22 minutes so there was a saving for both time and fuel.

Tony

[wagolynn]

Originally Posted by Frownsmile

I keep reading about ways to drive differently to reduce your fuel consumption and to go easier on your car. Things like hyper-miling - gentle acceleration, anticipating the road and blah blah!

I agree it's probably a good way to save money and I'd like to do it but it definitely doesn't come natural. I think I'm too old to change my driving style. Which is one part Nigel Mansell, one part limited by old banger vehicle!

How can I remember and change my driving style? Or can't I?

Develop a mental picture of a tap dripping money, the throttle opens the tap. Being from Yorkshire I always have an acute pain in my wallet, as the tap opens the pain gets worse!:D

[kbarnett]

I have changes my driving style I have a Mercedes 1994 E320 coupe and get about 14mpg out of it. I have just bought a 2.8TD 4x4 and yes I do drive it differently. Now more like 'driving Miss Daisy'
If I want to go fast I ride my motorbike.
I'm 45 years old but still like to think i'm growing old disgracefully.:)

[98selitb]

Something very small I do (I don't know if it actually saves fuel at all though but I have heard it does!) is change to neutral rather than keeping in 1st gear if I am at traffic lights or otherwise stopped for a very short period of time.

Maybe I'm opening a can of worms here but: if it wasn't illegal I would say use neutral when going downhill as that would definitely save fuel and in my opinion is not dangerous, but as I said coasting like that is for some reason illegal so I will definitely not recommend that.

[Frownsmile]

Thanks for all responses - quite a variety of suggestions and ideas there.

@Wagolynn Brilliant visualisation - I reckon that might actually slow me down.

@Rolebama So no Guns n Roses on the stereo? Actually my Ford Escort is too old to have a stereo. LOL!

@TonyAston Wow - that is some change in mpg! Not that I'm much of a girl racer.

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by 98selitb

Something very small I do (I don't know if it actually saves fuel at all though but I have heard it does!) is change to neutral rather than keeping in 1st gear if I am at traffic lights or otherwise stopped for a very short period of time.

I do this too. Not sure about the saving of fuel. It is recommended that you should depress the clutch when starting a car, so as to reduce drag from the gearbox. So I suppose the same can be said for waiting at lights, etc. I do it more for part comfort and part reduction of wear on clutch components.

Another habit of mine is to keep the MFD on the dashboard permanently set to show average fuel consumption during the journey. I tend not to use the MFD for anything else. An occasional glance tells me how the consumption is going, and I use my driving behaviour to get the best results (e.g. no fierce accelerating and braking or unnecessary high engine revs; just keep everything flowing smoothly.

[Tony Aston]

I think you may find coasting is not encouraged as it is deemed as being 'not in control of the vehicle'.

Frownsmile, guidance for advanced driving encoutages making progress. This term means driving at an appropriate speed for the road condition. My Asssociate in the Clio took advantage of the car and road conditions without breaking the speed limits and still enjoyed 38 mpg.

As has been said previously, it is down to looking in 'full' vision and not 'dipped' vision and reacting sooner to what you see ahead; observe the 2 second rule when following the vehicle in front and count how many times you see their brake light, you should be at least 1 tenth that number. Adjust your speed using accellerator sense. You waste fuel every time you put your foot on the brake.

This is not meant to be personal to you but comments in general.

I attended an Observer training day and one of the retired police driving instructors said the test that was given to drivers after training was to drive from Yeovil to Bournemouth without using their brakes and without stopping!

Tony

[Tony Aston]

I think you may find coasting is not encouraged as it is deemed as being 'not in control of the vehicle'.

Frownsmile, guidance for advanced driving encoutages making progress. This term means driving at an appropriate speed for the road condition. My Asssociate in the Clio took advantage of the car and road conditions without breaking the speed limits and still enjoyed 38 mpg.

As has been said previously, it is down to looking in 'full' vision and not 'dipped' vision and reacting sooner to what you see ahead; observe the 2 second rule when following the vehicle in front and count how many times you see their brake light, your use should be at least 1 tenth that number. Adjust your speed using accellerator sense. You waste fuel every time you put your foot on the brake.

This is not meant to be personal to you but comments in general.

I attended an Observer training day and one of the retired police driving instructors said the test that was given to drivers after training was to drive from Yeovil to Bournemouth without using their brakes and without stopping!

Tony

[Hometune]

[QUOTE=Tony Aston;40003]
Adjust your speed using accellerator sense. You waste fuel every time you put your foot on the brake.

I am not so sure this is the case any more. As far as I know, all modern cars with diesel engines switch off the fuel when the brake is applied. This is done via the brake switch which is linked into the engine ECU. This can be proved when the engine management light comes on randomly and you will find a brake bulb blown.
Petrol engines have a fuel pressure regulator which does what it says on the tin but, when braking or on engine overrun, closes the fuel right down so as to specifically save fuel. This is activated by the vacuum pressure in the throttle body via a small pipe to the regulator.
The latest petrol engines probably have the same brake switch arrangement as the diesel.

[Snowball]

[QUOTE=Hometune;40020]

Originally Posted by Tony Aston

As far as I know, all modern cars with diesel engines switch off the fuel when the brake is applied. This is done via the brake switch which is linked into the engine ECU.

I feel sure this is not the case. With the high compression ratio of a diesel engine, the shutting off of the fuel would cause severe shuddering, similar to when the revs are allowed to drop too low in a high gear.

[wagolynn]

I was dragged along by a K series engine for a while and I am 99.9% that shut fuel off on over run (Providing the engine was at running temp). It was possible to catch it out and end up with a dead engine. I think that later petrol cars in general will go into a fuel saving mode on over run but in a more sophisticated way. Work vehicles were all diesel and they appear to stop fuel going in on over run, though not a sudden stop I think they ramp down from tick over fuel to none. But if hometune says not, I defer.

But coasting is a definit no no.

[Hometune]

[QUOTE=Snowball;40024]

Originally Posted by Hometune

I feel sure this is not the case. With the high compression ratio of a diesel engine, the shutting off of the fuel would cause severe shuddering, similar to when the revs are allowed to drop too low in a high gear.

On the brake pedal switch of modern diesels there are 4 terminals. 2 for the brake lights as was the case previously and now 2 for the ECU. I believe you drive a Touran so brake and accelerate at the same time and you will eventually bring the engine management light on. The accelerator is teling the ECU to go faster and supply more fuel but the brake switch is doing the opposite. You will get the fault code that says brake switch incoherence (can't remember the VW fault code at the moment-something to do with age!).
When I say shutting off, I mean the lowest amount possible to keep the engine turning, not completely off. This was discussed at length in a previous forum by someone who could not accept that it was possible to switch off completely in a normal car. I pointed out as you have here, that shutting off ALL the fuel would cause severe problems.
Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Hometune]

I wonder why coasting is still frowned on so much?
I realise that in say, 50's cars, the brakes were marginal to say the least - cable operated and drums all round.
However, in today's cars with dual tandem braking systems, brake servo assistance, discs all round and backed up by ABS is there such a problem? You won't have engine braking to assist but do we need it in a new car? While the engine is still turning there will be servo assistance and there is electrical power to the ABS so it continues to work.
In an emergency stop, most drivers simply hit the brake pedal as hard and fast as they can and many also press the clutch at the same time. It's a natural reaction to brace yourself for the impending collision. So, while you are pressing the clutch, you are in effect coasting.
Or have I missed something in my own argument?

[Snowball]

Originally Posted by Hometune

I wonder why coasting is still frowned on so much?
I realise that in say, 50's cars, the brakes were marginal to say the least - cable operated and drums all round.
However, in today's cars with dual tandem braking systems, brake servo assistance, discs all round and backed up by ABS is there such a problem? You won't have engine braking to assist but do we need it in a new car? While the engine is still turning there will be servo assistance and there is electrical power to the ABS so it continues to work.

I think you have to ask yourself, "what would be the situation if I were coasting in neutral, and the engine suddenly failed?"
It would be bad enough with the vehicle in gear, but in neutral there would be the most liklihood of total loss of control.

[Rolebama]

I don't think that having clutch disengaged whilst braking counts as coasting. You are carrying out a deliberate manouevre.
As to coasting, personally, I have three arguments against it. First, I was taught that I should 'always', without exception, be in the correct gear for the road speed. (For this purpose, Neutral is counted as a gear to be engaged when stationary.) Second one is, to me, commonsense. I have been in the motor trade too long to believe that any vehicle is 100% reliable in all ways. If, whilst coasting, the engine stops, you lose servo assistance. I know that residual vacuum on most cars will still allow you to stop, but won't put up with the gentle on-off braking sometimes met. Third one is purely choice. Most engines on overrun deliver minimum of fuel, and deliver engine braking. So I am not unnecessarily braking, and using less fuel than coasting at tickover. These small amounts saved add up to give me a few extra yards on my gallon of fuel, and a couple more miles before I have to replace brakes.
**As far as I am aware, it is still illegal to coast, and I believe it is purely as 'being in control' with regard to being in correct gear for road speed.**

[Hometune]

Originally Posted by Snowball

I think you have to ask yourself, "what would be the situation if I were coasting in neutral, and the engine suddenly failed?"
It would be bad enough with the vehicle in gear, but in neutral there would be the most liklihood of total loss of control.

Thats easy to do. Coast and switch off and the car will run along quite happily. The brakes will be a bit harder but they will still work. Most cars have electric power steering now so while there is a battery connected you will still have steering. Only those cars with hydraulic pumps will make the steering heavier.
At least you can still manoeuvre to get to a safe position.

Now try the above with the car in gear. You stop almost dead with no control whatever. Anything behind you will smash into the back of your car - no brake lights to warn and most drive too close anyway.

So I do believe that the outlawing of coasting is outdated now. We've moved on but the law is still light years behind. And what we were taught when learning to drive 40 years ago is now nothing like today's tuition.

[smudger]

I'm sure I read somewhere that coasting in these modern cars with computers in them, caused the computer problems? Is that true?
Cheers, Smudger.

[98selitb]

I'm with Hometune on this one.

I would not coast (illegal or not) with the engine off due to the lack of steering.

But with the engine on I would do so no problem. You see, there's this pedal called the brake, it's between the clutch and the accelerator. It stops the car and/or slows it down:D

[Snowball]

With my car being a diesel, on long downhill runs I tend to stay in a lower gear and let the engine braking ability keep the car at a steady speed, rather than excessive use of the brakes. I never coast in neutral under any circumstances.

[Hometune]

The other factor is that an automatic, by and large, does allow coasting (not strictly but very close to it), as there is no engine braking direct to the engine and that is why brake pads wear out quicker on autos than equivalent manual.
I can't say I have coasted on a long downhill for a very long time as there is always too much traffic around :(

[Frownsmile]

Hi Tony
Actually, I like those kind of challenges - might try a no braking no stopping journey to see if it can be done (though we have some of the slowest traffic lights in the world in B'ham).
cheers.

[Tony Aston]

Frownsmile,

Safety is ALWAYS paramount!

Look on full vision and not on dipped vision and respond sooner than you might normally.
Tony

[Frownsmile]

Re Safety is always paramount.

Well, yeah! That's a given in these kind of discussions! Though interestingly I would say that operating on 'full vision' has its own issues - and if always concentrating on the bigger picture, it can be dangerous for not seeing what's right in front of you!

[Tony Aston]

It is surprising how much information is taken in by peripheral vision and the technique of scanning eliminates the danger of not seeing what is in front of you.

As with all my posts, these are general comments and not directed at any individual.
Tony

[Frownsmile]

What is scanning? I operate mainly on peripheral vision where I see everything - but have to then force myself to remember to check red lights right in front of me...

[Tony Aston]

Scanning is the method which enables you to see all around and is done about every 12 to 15 seconds; you see everything but only look at those hazards which may develop.

Rear view mirror; anything behind to affect you?
Near side wing; anything coming up inside you?
Near side front towards kerb
Ahead
Off side front
Off side wing mirror

This may be interpreted as 'I am not looking ahead for enough time' but in reality, you become very aware of what is around you. The skill is to develop what is and what is not important to you.

You see ahead traffic lights; are they pedestrian controlled or not. If pedestrian, any pedestrians approaching / waiting? Is the WAIT light on which would indicate a pedestrian has pressed button and crossed.
What colour are the traffic lights? If red then there could be a queue. How long have they been on that colour? Your scanning will give some indication. If on green, they will turn to amber so be prepared to stop.

and so on .....

This may be like teaching granny to suck eggs but I have found during my guidance for advanced driving that these are the points, and many more, which need to be emphasised in the early stages and this makes people aware of their surroundings.

A couple of more things of which we are all aware!

If you are in a line of traffic and the vehicle in front is a van or 4x4, how do you know what is in front of it? Look for the shadows cast by the vehicles; the shadows will give an indication of how many and how far apart those cars may be. This is very useful if you want to overtake a larger vehicle and you cannot see in front of that vehicle. It may be too late once you get alongside. the vehicle in front may not have seen you and wants to overtake the one in front. Oops!

Use reflections on sides of cars to see further round bends, use reflections in shop windows to help with blind spots, car light checks and so on.

Who says I have a hobby horse and soap box?images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Frownsmile]

Thanks for explaining all that. Very useful. I can relate to most of that actually and do a lot of it quite naturally.

Also, is this just me - but I also see driving in terms of games. Peripheral vision and scanning is like juggling - you can't just concentrate on what's in front but have to see all the balls moving and see peripherally that one is about to land in your hand. Roundabouts are like skipping games - you have to use your' judgement to know when to enter and at what speed to avoid tripping the rope (the other cars).

See what spatial awareness skills playground games can teach you! Wonder what other games are useful for driving skills and judgment!