[Rolebama]

Since HS2 work started in my general area, there has been a marked increase in reduced speed limits. NSLs reduced to 20 and 30mph and a noticeable increase in the number of traffic lights introduced. Originally we had 'temporary' speed limits and traffic lights, but these have now been replaced with permanent ones. When work first started on HS2, they made sense as there were heavy lorries and plant equipment using stretches of the roads, but now it seems they have completed whatever work they were doing. Yet we have been left with some completely redundant sets of lights and speed limits. We have also had planned road closures put off with unannounced ones springing up. I live in a NW London suburb, and I am curious as to whether this common along the route of HS2?

[Drivingforfun]

Not sure about HS2 but I often drive in the area where some new train line is supposed to be being laid - Oxford to Cambridge I suppose - and there are lots of speed limits and traffic lights here...I think I know the types of lights you mention, which are supposed to allow the plant vehicles to cross the road...they often seem to go red here for no apparent reason, they just seem to stop both/all directions of traffic for a minute or so, but nothing crosses the road

[TC1474]

Well firstly a quick history lesson regarding speed limits.

Until about 12 years ago, if the council wanted to change a speed limit they would have to consult with the Police and explain why they wanted a change to the limit.

The Police speed detection team or the traffic management section would then carry out various checks for the section of road in question. This would include looking at the pink stats completed after every injury or fatal crash, they would also carry out what is called an 85 percentile check where the speed of traffic was checked over a 48 or 72 hour period and then 15% were discarded as that is regarded as the figure in terms of drivers who will exceed the speed limit regardless.

The remaining 85% is where you get the overall average hence why it is called the 85 percentile check.

Once these checks were done, they would then look at enforcement issues and come to a decision as to whether a change in the speed limit was justified and make there thoughts known to the council. The council would then have to comply with the Police recommendations.

I was involved in many of these investigations and it was usually 50/50 as to those that stated as were or changes implemented.

However, rules changed and the council were/are no longer required to consult anyone about speed limits and they can change speed limits at will providing the traffic order is in place and it is advertised in the London Gazette at least 4 weeks before it is instigated.

So, when it comes to the circumstances as mentioned above, many councils see it as a means to generate more money in fines and to justify the continuing existence of their highly paid traffic engineers who don't have a clue other than the theory but no practical common sense what so ever.

Hence the reason why many new speed limits are not enforced by patrols (apart from the fact that there aren't many these days) and in some cases crash rates have increased because some of the lower limits in particular are unreasonable and impractical.

So around sites such as HS2, council have put new limits in place and see it as a boon to road safety rath er than looking at real statistics and the practicalities.

Remember when the 70 limit was introduced for Motorways during the fuel crisis in the 70's? That was introduced as a temporary limit. Look what happened with that.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by TC1474

So, when it comes to the circumstances as mentioned above, many councils see it as a means to generate more money in fines and to justify the continuing existence of their highly paid traffic engineers who don't have a clue other than the theory but no practical common sense what so ever.

If that was the case they were sadly misinformed. Revenue from speeding fines and FPs goes to the Treasury. Speed awareness course fees are split between the course providers and the police.
Nothing speed-related goes to the councils.

[Drivingforfun]

Interesting lesson there, thanks for the info

We seem to have some temporary roadworks-style "40" signs on a road near where I live. It seems to be an easy response to fixing the state of the road but not 100% sure.

I know the sheep mentality isn't a defence for breaking the law, but absolutely no-one seems to obey this one - far less than the people who vaguely stick to all other limits, anyway

I've read (might have been here) that these signs aren't actually "legal" because there aren't repeater signs. Furthermore, if you turn left out of the village half way along you would pass a NSL sign just before turning onto the main road, but other traffic would still technically be obeying the "40" signs

Not sure if anyone is able to clear this up for me?

[TC1474]

Originally Posted by Beelzebub

If that was the case they were sadly misinformed. Revenue from speeding fines and FPs goes to the Treasury. Speed awareness course fees are split between the course providers and the police.
Nothing speed-related goes to the councils.

Not always the case, rules changed some time ago and many councils now also get to keep some of the revenue from speed enforcement cameras

[TC1474]

Originally Posted by Drivingforfun

Interesting lesson there, thanks for the info

We seem to have some temporary roadworks-style "40" signs on a road near where I live. It seems to be an easy response to fixing the state of the road but not 100% sure.

I know the sheep mentality isn't a defence for breaking the law, but absolutely no-one seems to obey this one - far less than the people who vaguely stick to all other limits, anyway

I've read (might have been here) that these signs aren't actually "legal" because there aren't repeater signs. Furthermore, if you turn left out of the village half way along you would pass a NSL sign just before turning onto the main road, but other traffic would still technically be obeying the "40" signs

Not sure if anyone is able to clear this up for me?

To be a legal sign and for it to be enforceable it has to be a round sign with a red border and a white background such as shown here.

If it is any other sign, for example a matrix sign on the Motorway (which is different to the variable speed limit sign which is also round with a red border) then it is not enforceable for breaking the speed limit, but it may be used as good evidence for a prosecution for careless of even dangerous driving depending on the circumstances.

[Beelzebub]

[QUOTE=Drivingforfun;140148]

I've read (might have been here) that these signs aren't actually "legal" because there aren't repeater signs. /QUOTE]
AFAIK there used to be a requirement for repeater signs at least every xxx metres, but since the 2016 regs they need only be often enough to "adequately" convey the limit. Make of that what you will.

[TC1474]

[QUOTE=Beelzebub;140151]

Originally Posted by Drivingforfun

I've read (might have been here) that these signs aren't actually "legal" because there aren't repeater signs. /QUOTE]
AFAIK there used to be a requirement for repeater signs at least every xxx metres, but since the 2016 regs they need only be often enough to "adequately" convey the limit. Make of that what you will.

The regulations actually changed in 2012.

The general rule is that motorists are supposed to be aware that they are in a 30 mph area because the street lamps are 200 yards apart and the area is built-up. The general prohibition was “the result of case law which makes it difficult to gain convictions for speeding if some restricted roads and not others have repeater signs.

That said, the 200 yards between street lams is also flexible under sections 81 to 88 of the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984.

There is a lot more to the act but that is the basics, but in short, a driver will pass a speed limit sign at every entry to the limited speed restriction road, and therefore it is assumed that the driver will have seen the speed limit and no repeaters are required.

The original distance stated in law was the same as the lamp post requirement namely every 200 yards or every 7th or 8th lamp post but that was removed with the change in legislation

[Rolebama]

Drivingforfun: Do you mean the ones on the straight off the roundabout after the water tower south of Biggleswade, the Potton turnoff? I think these were put up by whoever uses that track/lane entrance just off the roundabout. I have noticed the amount of artics coming and going from there. Just a thought.