the rubbish you are taught in driving lessons for your test

20-04-08 23:14

Originally Posted by mills705

thought newish/learners should put their stupid things they can remember about driving for the test. A few i can remember are:
1) the ruddy handbrake for more than a few seconds stop. ( they have improved on everytime you are stationary :)...)
2) Use of lights, it is well known that many people flash their lights to show somone that they are giving way to them. as a learner and in your test you are not to use your lights or acknoweledge someone that does this BUT if u dont take up the opportunity of pulling out etc when someone flashes you, you will fail your test... how silly is that! sigh.

I agree with both points, the British driving test is so badly flawed and unrealistic, it makes me cross. Every day, perfectly safe drivers are failed for completely unfair reasons, and bad drivers are passed despite doing unrealistic and dangerous things.

Please could an ADI or driving examiner explain the following injustices?:

!) Why are candidates failed when certain things happen that is not their fault whatsoever. E.g. you are sitting in the car at a red light. Someone hits you from behind. The candidate fails their test as a result of a collision, despite them doing absolutely NOTHING wrong and having NO way to avoid it. How would you like it, Mr. or Mrs. examiner, if that happened to you? Do you seriously believe that is fair? If so, please explain why!

2) Why are candidates failed for waiting for too long at a junction/roundabout that has constant traffic and you do not have priority, when if they proceed, they will cause an accident? Again, this is something that the candidate has no control over - if they wait, they fail; if they go, they fail. This is a disgrace.

3) The OP's quote: why are candidates failed if someone flashes at them and they do not proceed, even if it illegal for them to do so. Again - if they wait, they fail; and if they go, they fail, or at least get a minor for doing an illegal maneouvre. They should NOT be given even a minor if there are only two options and both options result in an "error". In real life, there is NO error for waiting at a junction if it is unsafe to move off, and you should NOT rely on someone flashing as a guarantee that it is safe.

Why are there these awful contradictions and dead-ends that would be so easy to get rid of? Is it so that the candidates have to pay another Â£50 to do another test?

20-04-08 23:22

completely agreed- you see its only judged on 40mins of driving which is why i believe it should be done over a period of time.
I know a friend in Canada, there system seems alot better. To get a license you must do a theory test, and then learn and do a test, then you get 'p' plates for one year, you then resit the same test and if you pass then you have a full license. I must add the p plates are much like learner drivers. You can only have so many people in the car and at certain times...
Im not looking at getting a newer car now i have a bit of experience.... get rid of the banger :D

smudger

22-04-08 19:22

That "P" plate idea is also used in Europe, I remember Tog gear mentioning it on one of their shows, its a good idea, really. Another thing about it was, that if a young driver, who has the "P" plate, gets pulled over for speeding, or any other motoring offence, like driving without due care and so on, they have to resit the test again! The country that had that scheme said it cut down the amount of accidents involving younger drivers, by more than half!
Cheers, Smudger.

22-04-08 19:55

Yeah I agree with you, I think the 'P' idea is fairer. It's important to gain experience for yourself - it's pretty difficult to do this just in driving lessons where you are protected and stopped every time you make a mistake. I think I learnt more in the first few weeks after passing my test than I ever did while learning.

22-04-08 19:59

i do agree the 'p' plate scheme is better and that I have learnt more during driving on my own. Done pass plus also. Pass plus to me was a joke TBH, you drive along some country roads and then a motorway and thats about it! I reckon that needs a good looking at!
I think having passed your test that having the 6points rule is a bit unfair in my opinion, its made me more wary of driving and everytime i see a camera i slow well down etc. I think that they make the test hard enough then when you pass you have the same rights as other drivers in points.

22-04-08 20:36

Yep I think the points rules should be the same for everyone, otherwise it implies some drivers are superior to others, and we don't want people driving round with that attitude. Yes, experienced drivers may be less likely to make a silly mistake but everyone makes errors sometimes and if an error justifies a penalty, people should be punished equally, not depending on experience etc.

Did Pass Plus help you get a cheaper insurance premium? And also did you learn anything new?

22-04-08 20:47

ill find out insurance when i get the C1, see general discussion.
As for pass plus- it was quite boring tbh with you, the instructor has a list of points to make and he basically read them off of a booklet and asked if you understood. Most of it was common sense ie use full beam on country lanes and turn off as soon as you see someone else... I didnt find that much new out. But my driving instructor (private) was very good as i learn and deffinatly knows his stuff and I think it should be more extensive.
A point- you cant fail pass plus just got to do 6hours minimum after your test. And do the topics but its not that good, IF u dont do it and can only talk about it ie extreme weather then they just put a as in acceptable and e for everything youve experenced.

24-04-08 11:00

Driving tests

I honestly wonder who passes people these days! Current standards of driving are the worst I have ever seen.

An example of ignorance is displayed above; in order to pass a driving test in the UK you are supposed to have thoroughly read, digested and understood the Highway Code. Had you done so you should know that a flashed headlamp is the visual equivalent of the use of the horn. It is NOT good enough to make up your own assumptions about what signals mean because you think everybody else does it - for example, there are many foreign drivers on the UK roads; on most of the continent a flash of the headlamps means "Get out of my b****y way!", and certainly not "After you".

And where did people get the idea that if you are turning right at a mini-roundabout you can ignore the "Give Way" signs that are ineveitably on ONE of the entrances? Another example of people making up the rules as they go along. That's why road collisions are not coming down; it's nothing to do with speed, it's incompetance and lack of concentration!

25-04-08 14:53

Originally Posted by Watcher

I honestly wonder who passes people these days! Current standards of driving are the worst I have ever seen.

An example of ignorance is displayed above; in order to pass a driving test in the UK you are supposed to have thoroughly read, digested and understood the Highway Code. Had you done so you should know that a flashed headlamp is the visual equivalent of the use of the horn. It is NOT good enough to make up your own assumptions about what signals mean because you think everybody else does it - for example, there are many foreign drivers on the UK roads; on most of the continent a flash of the headlamps means "Get out of my b****y way!", and certainly not "After you".

And where did people get the idea that if you are turning right at a mini-roundabout you can ignore the "Give Way" signs that are ineveitably on ONE of the entrances? Another example of people making up the rules as they go along. That's why road collisions are not coming down; it's nothing to do with speed, it's incompetance and lack of concentration!

about 80% of drivers in the UK use their headlights as a way of showing someone that you are giving way to them to allow them to pull out from a junction or letting a bus out.
I had a lady flash me out on my test and no minor was given for this since she was in quite heavy traffic. However, had i not moved off when she flashed out I would have received a minor for not keeping up with normal traffic since I didnt move out.
There are a few instances of tests being not having road sense in modern driving, you deffinatly learn to drive once you have passed your test!

25-04-08 16:01

80%?

Originally Posted by mills705

about 80% of drivers in the UK use their headlights as a way of showing someone that you are giving way to them to allow them to pull out from a junction or letting a bus out.
I had a lady flash me out on my test and no minor was given for this since she was in quite heavy traffic. However, had i not moved off when she flashed out I would have received a minor for not keeping up with normal traffic since I didnt move out.
There are a few instances of tests being not having road sense in modern driving, you deffinatly learn to drive once you have passed your test!

80%? You've done a comprehensive survey have you? Did you include those who were obviously not from the UK, and did you manage to find a way to identify the other 15% and what they thought a headlight flash might mean - apart from what the Highway Code says it means, that is?

25-04-08 16:24

Originally Posted by Watcher

80%? You've done a comprehensive survey have you? Did you include those who were obviously not from the UK, and did you manage to find a way to identify the other 15% and what they thought a headlight flash might mean - apart from what the Highway Code says it means, that is?

Got any proof to the contrary?

Whatever the highway code says (which you have insisted on other occasions is a recommended guide and not the law), it's fairly obvious that in day-to-day driving when someone flashes their headlights, it is more often than not implying that they're allowing someone the right of way. Sometimes it's for other things, admittedly, but I'd say a minority.

It's not very nice bringing other people's estimations into question when your own have no more substance themselves.

25-04-08 18:08

80% was just my rough estimate on how often i observe it or take part in it on a day to day basis driving. On about a 4mile journey today i saw it 3 times, and once to me. I know its not a real stat but i think its quite representative.
I think that what the highway code says about flashing lights and what the general driving public believe it means is another thing entirely.
The original thread was about the fact that many people do use it as a method of showing someone that you are giving way to them and the way in which you musnt use it in a driving test but make full use of it if someone does it to you!
My driving instructor said it was ridiculous! Very contradictary.

galaxymadbaz

25-04-08 19:33

BTW The Highway code is not just a guide, you can be prosecuted for not following it, the RTA says so.

The headlight thing, there was no way in hell I'd have passed my class 2 recently if I did not take up offers from flashing drivers (that sounds like it should be in a XXX forum). Everybody knows (or should know) when it is to be used as in the HC, but in modern driving things are different. Just be careful when flashed out as the flash can be misinterpreted, by you or others.

26-04-08 12:54

I use my headlamp flasher instead of my horn at night to show my presence. I also use it on motorways and dual carriageways as an indication for an overtaking lorry/caravan to pull in front, but not if flashing would dazzle oncoming traffic. When someone flashes me to pull out into traffic or turn across their path, I ignore them. I have seen accidents caused by this when two people have reacted simultaneously to the 'flasher'. What really bugs me most though, is when I pull over to let someone through a queue of parked cars, and their idea of thanking me is to blind me with the full array of every lamp they have fitted! My 'thank you' is to momentarily turn off mains to side.

26-04-08 18:03

Flashing headlights

The Highway Code is not law, but it can be used as evidence in a court to demonstrate that an offence has been committed; like Rolebama says, a flash of a headlight means ONLY "I am here".

Now, as Sod's Law supercedes all other Laws you can be fairly sure that sooner or later your alternative interpretation of someone's intention will land you in the merde, and you will have no comeback.:rolleyes:

earthling

01-04-09 21:07

Wish I never looked!!

Oh God....I wish I hadn't read this thread now haha!!!! So, let me get this right.......if I hesitate at a junction/roundabout, I'll fail my test. If I whoop out too quickly, I'll fail my test. If someone flashes me (:D) and I ignore them, I'll fail. If someone flashes me and I proceed, I'll fail. Good god....think I'll buy a skateboard instead!!!!!!!

roadhog

09-04-09 20:20

mills705 wrote

-----------A point- you cant fail pass plus just got to do 6hours minimum after your test.------------

However, it is an assessment, and if your ADI decides that you have not achieved the minimum standard, whether you take more hours or not, you will not be signed off.

As for pass plus- it was quite boring tbh with you, the instructor has a list of points to make and he basically read them off of a booklet and asked if you understood.

If you experienced the Pass Plus course as you described, do you think you were given value for money?
Also do you think that all ADIs deliver the Pass Plus syllabus in the manner that you described?

roadhog

09-04-09 21:17

Went to Kingston yesterday. On the way back I was driving along an empty road with a parked car in front of me. It was dark and the parked car's interior light was on. This made it easy for me to see that the guy sitting in the driver's seat was leaning across to the passenger side of the car talking to someone hunched down at the window, on the footpath. No other moving vehicle on the road, so started moving out to pass it. Still he is leaning across the passenger seat, and the car starts moving out from the kerb to drive away. I decelerated and braked, and flashed him with my headlamps. His reaction was to sit up properly, stick his hand out the window in a gesture of thanks, and turn his lights on. It wasn't until I pulled up behind him at a set of traffic lights that I saw his ADI badge! And this guy teaches others to drive?! (Or, worse in my opinion, lends his car to someone who can't.)

12-04-09 12:12

Flashing headlamps

And in many places in continental Europe a flash of the headlamps does NOT mean "After you old boy", it means "Get out of my bl***y way before I ram you!" So be careful!

(Actually, on the "open road" it also means "monile speed trap ahead", but that's another story!)

22-04-09 11:23

Originally Posted by Watcher

(Actually, on the "open road" it also means "monile speed trap ahead", but that's another story!)

Yep. Someone did that in France to warn motorists coming in the other direction that there was a police speed check ahead of them. He got pulled up by police and eventually sent to court accused of something along the lines of preventing police from catching speeding drivers by warning them in advance. But the judge threw the case out because the guy accused was warning drivers who were speeding to slow down and not go over the speed limit, thus making the roads safer in theory. This created a jurisprudence and now people do it all the time to warn oncoming motorists of a speed trap.

22-04-09 11:41

A few weeks ago, I had just left the market at Bovingdon, Herts when a few cars came round the corner toward me and started flashing their headlamps. (Broad daylight, 10am Sat morning). I assumed they were flashing because of something on my car, so pulled over, jumped out and had a look. I was approached by a PC on foot, and looking up, saw his colleague emerge from behind a tree with a speed gun in his hand. (This was just outside The Mount.) Cars coming round the corner behind me were slowing because of me, and it was ruining the speed trap apparently.

23-04-09 22:15

I have often found people flashing at me just before a speed trap. Like rolebalma I checked my lights etc thinking it was me. but then I twigged it was the mobile speed camera around the corner!
they have now put up permanent signs so you are unaware if they will be there are not!

24-04-09 10:35

Originally Posted by Rolebama

A few weeks ago, I had just left the market at Bovingdon, Herts when a few cars came round the corner toward me and started flashing their headlamps. (Broad daylight, 10am Sat morning). I assumed they were flashing because of something on my car, so pulled over, jumped out and had a look. I was approached by a PC on foot, and looking up, saw his colleague emerge from behind a tree with a speed gun in his hand. (This was just outside The Mount.) Cars coming round the corner behind me were slowing because of me, and it was ruining the speed trap apparently.

A typical example of traffic policing today. So they would rather catch people speeding than prevent them speeding in the first place and make the roads safer. After all, once an offence has been committed, there's nothing than can be done to stop it, yet surely it is better if they can prevent it from being committed in the first place? Oops, no, they won't make any money that way.

smudger

24-04-09 19:58

Up here in Fife, they have put up signs, which tell you exactly how fast you are going, (with no camera) when we enter some of the small villages.
I think that is a good idea really, as its just like a gentle reminder, without the big hammer;)
Cheers, Smudger.

24-04-09 20:47

There is one of those at the bottom of hill on Ducks Hill Road where the speed limit changes from NSL to 30. It is quite useful as it shows your speed before you enter the 30 zone.

Xenomorph

26-04-09 22:52

I came across this post on a random trawl of ADI forums in a moment of boredom. I am an examiner for the DSA but forgive me if I don't tell you from where. I generally live on another ADI forum but won't mention where in case that breaks some posting rule on here. Hello to all...

98selitb - allow me to answer your post #2 in this thread:

1 - If you are hit on the driving test and the car, or you, cannot continue and it wasn't your fault then the result is recorded as NONE on the DL25. You will not fail you test for that. You will lose your fee if the test is terminated but if the accident wasn’t your fault you can claim the money back, and more, from the 3rd parties insurance company. If you can continue you could still pass even though an accident has occurred.

2 - If a candidate cannot emerge without causing another driver to evade then how can you fail for not moving out? You will not fail because the roads are busy. However you would fail if you did not make progress when safe; this is something a lot of people taking their test fail to understand. If in your mind you cannot emerge because there is no room but the examiner is telling you that you could have then you are in the wrong. You probably need more practice.

3 - With regards to the opening poster; it doesn't matter when you use your handbrake or even if you don't use it as long as you don't lose control of the vehicle which in the case of the HB usually means rolling backwards. Instructors are a pain for being so pedantic over the use of the HB instead of explaining when and where it is necessary to use it. I guess it is far easier just to say “when a pause becomes a wait, use your handbrake” than to teach someone how to use it normally.

As far as flashing your lights is concerned; if someone flashes their lights at you whilst waiting to turn and it is obvious the other person is slowing to allow you passage how can it be illegal to proceed? It is not illegal but it is annoying for the people behind you who wonder why you don't go when people are letting you go. Suffice to say we expect candidates to exercise common sense on the test in exactly the same way as you, hopefully, will after passing. That’s presuming you haven’t done so already!

However I do agree that the current test is flawed, just not in the way you perhaps perceive.