[WillSt]

Hello everyone

I have a question about licences. I'm not interested in learning to drive. I don't think driving a car will be an option in the future with driverless cars, and I've got my own beliefs about it (environmental pollution, etc. but also I'm unathletic as I'm more into computers and Iphones than outdoor stuff and sports, also if I'm honest I might be a bit dyspraxic, although self-diagnosed.) However, I still think I need a licence. This is a bit embarrassing so bear with me... I'm going to be 18 at the turn of next year, and I look very young for my age. I'll probably need photo ID to buy alcohol. The thing is, I already have a provisional licence, but it's green and has a big 'L' on it. Girls don't find it cool - most of them already have or almost have their pink full licence. So it's a huge defeat if they see mine...

Now, I've looked up licence categories and have Googled endlessly about a shortcut to get a pink licence of some sort. I was wondering, can I just get category K (lawnmower and vehicles operated by foot) on my licence? Is there a form to fill out to get this so I could get a pink category K-only licence? Rather not do any sort of tests, and category K is enough because nobody would take a close look at my categories if I just used it for ID.

Thanks in advance

[98selitb]

Anyone who is shallow enough to judge you by the colour of your driving licence is not worth the time or effort. Also, plenty of people don't pass their test until their 20s, so it's not at all usual to have a provisional at 18 - probably more common than having a full licence.

There are other official IDs (other than a passport) that can apparently be used in pubs, clubs etc. for those who don't have a driving licence, though online discussions suggest there is a some inconsistency in terms of them being accepted

https://www.theguardian.com/money/20...-age-card-pass
https://forums.digitalspy.com/discus...rivers-licence

I don't know about the K licence etc. - hopefully someone who does know will tell you if this is possible.

Failing that, it's a toss-up between using your perfectly legitimate and legally valid provisional licence, or taking your passport every time you want to buy alcohol.

I understand your stance about the environment and applaud you for sticking to what you believe in, but sometimes in life a car is the only option if you live in a rural area. Ironic how the most pristine and environmentally protected areas are the ones that require the use of a car.

--

This whole thing, for me, illustrates how silly it is that we don't have a national ID card system like almost every other country in the world. This totally solves the "I don't drive and don't have a passport/don't want to take my passport with me everywhere" problem that is unique to the UK.

[Santa]

One suggestion might be an intensive full time driving course. They are not cheap, but Are a solution for many people for different reasons.

https://www.oneweekdrivingcourse.co.uk/
https://www.learnerdriving.com/store...ss-course.html

Just the top two that came up on a search.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by 98selitb

Anyone who is shallow enough to judge you by the colour of your driving licence is not worth the time or effort.

You're probably right, but her intellectual depth is unlikely to be a major consideration for an 18-y-o boy on the pull.

[98selitb]

We have a friend from Luxembourg, who has a Luxembourg driving licence. This has a big 'L' on it - where the rest of us have a big 'UK' on it, as it's the country code. Once on a random traffic stop, the police accused him of driving alone on a provisional, and it took a while to get it into the policeman's head that he was not a learner driver, and eventually persuaded the policeman to get his own driving licence out to compare and realise it was talking about the country and not a learner status!

[smudger]

There was talk way back in he 80s about issuing everybody with an I.D. Cards, but the human rights brigade kicked up a big fuss about it?...........................................It's a shame really, especially in these days with all these new security problems............................. ............After all, we all carried I.D. Cards when we were in the forces, so what's the difference?

[Santa]

Originally Posted by smudger

There was talk way back in he 80s about issuing everybody with an I.D. Cards, but the human rights brigade kicked up a big fuss about it?...........................................It's a shame really, especially in these days with all these new security problems............................. ............After all, we all carried I.D. Cards when we were in the forces, so what's the difference?

The enormous cost. Some billions as I recall and no certainty about security. The problem was that they (Was it Prescott?) wanted to go a lot further and just a card with a picture on it. They wanted all kinds of biometric data (whatever that really is) and then people started to think about identity theft, would carrying it be compulsory, what would happen if yours was stolen, etc.

All that's really needed is something similar to a driving licence with a central register to match. The problem is that the OP still wouldn't have a drivers licence like all the cool kids do.

[98selitb]

Originally Posted by Santa

The enormous cost. Some billions as I recall and no certainty about security. The problem was that they (Was it Prescott?) wanted to go a lot further and just a card with a picture on it. They wanted all kinds of biometric data (whatever that really is) and then people started to think about identity theft, would carrying it be compulsory, what would happen if yours was stolen, etc

These are all fair points, and it would of course need to be investigated and consulted on, etc.

But if 90% of other European countries can do this (and have had ID cards for decades, and the modern ones are biometric), I'm not sure what the big stumbling block is. In most countries, it is compulsory to carry a form of ID on you at all times, and the police can fine you if they randomly stop you and you don't have any. It's a bit of a contradiction that the UK has no such system as its privacy standards are very low compared to other places (naming of people in court cases, naming of accident victims, the amount of intrusion that the tabloid press can get away with - none of this happens in most other countries and it's considered normal here, yet ID cards stir up such a big privacy debate).

I have been stopped a couple of times in France (as a pedestrian) for the sole purpose of a random ID check. Both times they accepted my UK driving licence, even though that's not an official form of ID in countries that have ID cards. I guess they are aware that Brits don't have them, and that passports are not practical to carry every time you leave your home, so they let it go.

[smudger]

Personally I think the reasons for having an I.D.card, far outweighs the reasons for not having one........................All that talk about invasion of privacy and so on,.................come on,..............................folk give more information about them selves on Face Book and other social media sites, than they have to put onto an I.D. Card?

[Santa]

Some do and many refuse to even contemplate any of the social media sites. Just because there are people who seem to live their lives in public, doesn't mean that everyone wants to.

Apart from the OP's problem, can you list the real benefits of having ID cards.

[98selitb]

Originally Posted by Santa

Apart from the OP's problem, can you list the real benefits of having ID cards.

Mainly just the convenience really. It slips into your wallet just like a credit card, yet is equally as valid and powerful as a passport.

For people who don't/can't drive (including those who aren't allowed to, like those with epilepsy), it is highly preferable to carrying your passport with you whenever you go somewhere where you might need ID.

Also, it is accepted just like a passport for travelling to other countries in Europe (you only need a passport if you travel further afield). You won't get onto a plane with a driving licence but you can with an ID card. When I lived in France, most of my friends/colleagues/etc. didn't have passports, as you don't need one for European travel. They only got one if they were going on holiday to America or somewhere. In France, ID cards are free, so it saves having to buy a passport.

[genabi]

Will St, Just buy a red tinted plastic folder to put your licence in.

OR, tell people that you are Learning to drive tracked vehicles on Salisbury Plain

[Santa]

Originally Posted by 98selitb

When I lived in France, most of my friends/colleagues/etc. didn't have passports, as you don't need one for European travel. They only got one if they were going on holiday to America or somewhere. In France, ID cards are free, so it saves having to buy a passport.

That's because they are part of the Schengen area and we are not. A French person would need a passport to come here I think.

I think that those countries that have had them a long time have fewer problems. Our difficulty is that we would be starting from scratch. The cost/benefit analysis just doesn't stand up.

[98selitb]

Originally Posted by Santa

A French person would need a passport to come here I think.

They don't. They can use ID cards, as can people from any EEA country that issues them.

https://www.gov.uk/uk-border-control...ave-for-the-uk

I agree with you about the practicalities and admin difficulties an introduction would have. As a result, it's important that pubs, night clubs, etc. should consistently permit access/sales with one of these apparently official ID schemes, for people who don't drive and don't have a passport/don't want to carry their passport on a night out.

[genabi]

A person with a UK driving licence as identification can travel by boat from England, Wales or Scotland to Republic of Ireland

[genabi]

98selib, Santa may be correct, an air line would probably insist that the French person show their passport

[98selitb]

Originally Posted by genabi

98selib, Santa may be correct, an air line would probably insist that the French person show their passport

No it would not - and could not - for journeys within the EU, EEA and Switzerland. Government-issued ID cards are legally valid forms of ID when travelling in this area. For trips outside Europe, yes you need a passport. Have a look next time you're at an airport on the continent, you will see many people presenting their ID cards instead of their passports.

Ireland is an exception as it is in the Common Travel Area with the UK, so a driving licence is OK. But a driving licence will not be accepted for travelling to any other country in the world.

[Motman]

Originally Posted by genabi

98selib, Santa may be correct, an air line would probably insist that the French person show their passport

Wrong again, Dennis. Oh, by the way, have you had a sex change since we last heard from you - you seem to be implying you are a woman this time round.

[Santa]

I remember reading recently that someone was refused travel on London/Glasgow flight because they had no passport. I thing they had some ID but not sure what, but the airline said no passport no travel.

[98selitb]

Originally Posted by Santa

I remember reading recently that someone was refused travel on London/Glasgow flight because they had no passport. I thing they had some ID but not sure what, but the airline said no passport no travel.

That's an interesting one. EU law provides that airlines must accept ID cards for travel between different countries in the EU/EEA/CH, otherwise they open themselves up to compensation for denied boarding under the passenger rights legislation. But I wonder if it is up to the individual countries (or the airlines, if there are no national rules) when flying domestically. I've just done a quick check for domestic UK flight requirements, and Flybe says passport or driving licence, BA says passport, ID or driving licence, and Ryanair says passport or ID card but absolutely not driving licence. Leads me to believe the airlines can do what they like within one country, so I guess anyone without a passport doing a domestic flight should check with the airline.

[Beelzebub]

Originally Posted by 98selitb

Mainly just the convenience really. It slips into your wallet just like a credit card, yet is equally as valid and powerful as a passport.

For people who don't/can't drive (including those who aren't allowed to, like those with epilepsy), it is highly preferable to carrying your passport with you whenever you go somewhere where you might need ID.

Also, it is accepted just like a passport for travelling to other countries in Europe (you only need a passport if you travel further afield). You won't get onto a plane with a driving licence but you can with an ID card. When I lived in France, most of my friends/colleagues/etc. didn't have passports, as you don't need one for European travel. They only got one if they were going on holiday to America or somewhere. In France, ID cards are free, so it saves having to buy a passport.

The use of an ID card for travel is a red herring. We will have left the EU long before a card could be introduced. Unless of course the government see sense.

[98selitb]

I agree that the main advantage of pure convenience is not enough to warrant the expense and admin of introducing it.

[genabi]

The U.K. Had National Identity cards in the 1940s and early 1950.

We still have some photographic identity passes today for various purposes such as bus and rail travel..

And ForcEs ID cards

[genabi]

The government would be unlikely to consider the convenience benefit?

Their convenience but NOT our convenience