[absolutely80s]

Hello All - a newbie's first post here :)

My car went through it's MOT today - it passed (yay). When I left the car with the garage this morning, I mentioned that I had seen the ad hoc appearance of the ABS warning light, and that it stays on for a few seconds before disappearing.This was purely to give the tester a heads up in case they see it during the test, and that it could be fixed afterwards (given that it's a fail if it appears and stays on during the test).

However, on getting the test certificate, there is an advisory which states, and I quote: "(owner said he has a ABS warning light coming on intermittently. Not on at time of mot)".

I have emailed the garage to query this because I don't understand how something that was not experienced or seen by the tester, and did not happen during the test, could be mentioned as an advisory. My thinking is that this should not be treated as an advisory - would that be correct?

Backstory: I took the car under warranty to the dealer last month when the ABS warning light issue first happened. They say they replaced the ABS sensor under warranty, yet the day I get it back from them, the warning light comes up again. The dealer and the tester are one and the same business, so it feels like someone is covering their back. The warranty expires at the end of November.

Any advice, thoughts or opinion will be gratefully received.

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by absolutely80s;n195293

Any advice, thoughts or opinion will be gratefully received.

Don't worry about it and forget about it. The car passed.

Now get back to the dealer and get the ABS warning light sorted

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by alan1302;n195294

Don't worry about it and forget about it. The car passed.

Now get back to the dealer and get the ABS warning light sorted

Yes, absolutely. However, if I plan to sell on or trade in the car in the meantime, this will have an effect on valuation...

it it seems to be that the dealer is trying to string things out to the end of the warranty period, given they believe they fixed the issue last tine round. I’ve said they haven’t, they say they can’t find a problem. Where do I stand in that scenario? Report them to Ford?

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by absolutely80s;n195295

Yes, absolutely. However, if I plan to sell on or trade in the car in the meantime, this will have an effect on valuation...

it it seems to be that the dealer is trying to string things out to the end of the warranty period, given they believe they fixed the issue last tine round. I’ve said they haven’t, they say they can’t find a problem. Where do I stand in that scenario? Report them to Ford?

Won't affect valuation

[Hometune]

How long have you had the car?
How old is it?
When did the ABS fault first appear?
Did you take it back immediately for repair?
How many times have they tried to fix it?
What sort of warranty do you have?

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by Hometune;n195297

How long have you had the car?
How old is it?
When did the ABS fault first appear?
Did you take it back immediately for repair?
How many times have they tried to fix it?
What sort of warranty do you have?

Car owned since Dec 18

ABS warning light first appeared about a month ago. Always appears in tandem with traction warning lamp, then goes off after a few seconds.

Reported it to dealer under warranty immediately. I took it in for repair at the first available booking I was offered.

Once. they said it was a sensor issue, replaced it, but it recurred immediately i got it back.

ford protect warranty valid to 30 November this year.

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by alan1302;n195296

Won't affect valuation

Really? Internet consensus appears to be that any advisories which aren’t resolved before sale may be viewed negatively by potential buyers, be it trade p/x or private.

[absolutely80s]

I neglected to add that, since the sensor was replaced, there is now also a very ad hoc sound of metal from beneath the car, almost like the sound of going over a loose manhole cover, despite there being none on the road at the time it happens. Again, it’s ad hoc, and it doesn’t always follow the warning lights appearing.

I’ll be taking it to an independent garage tomorrow for an examination, see if they can find what the dealer obviously can’t.

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by absolutely80s;n195300

I neglected to add that, since the sensor was replaced, there is now also a very ad hoc sound of metal from beneath the car, almost like the sound of going over a loose manhole cover, despite there being none on the road at the time it happens. Again, it’s ad hoc, and it doesn’t always follow the warning lights appearing.

I’ll be taking it to an independent garage tomorrow for an examination, see if they can find what the dealer obviously can’t.

Update: local independent garage questioned why the tester added the ABS comment when the issue was not experienced during the test. This vindicates the thought I expressed in my OP. Anyway, they are going to do an hour's labour on it tomorrow to see what they can find (plus change one tyre). Chap I spoke with speculated an ABS system issue after I described the metallic clang-like sound I heard. He thinks that's ABS trying to kick in (under normal circumstances, you don't hear anything). The lurch could also be a wheel lock which then prompts the ABS activation. Regarding the original dealer, he has heard negative feedback about their post-sales track record insofar as they tend to try to absolve themselves of upholding (as far as possible) the warranty. Anyway, I look forward to seeing what they find. If nothing major or expensive, I will have them fix it without delay, because Ford can't see me until next Wednesday. If it's something ominous or pricey, then I look forward to showing the dealer the results of what a third party could find but they could not.

[Hometune]

It sounds as though the dealer plugged his machine into the car, read the fault code(s) and simply changed the sensor without any proper testing. He should have separated the fault from an electrical one or a mechanical one. If electrical then the wiring from the sensor to the ABS module must be checked - this is common for bad connections or broken wires. A resistance check of the sensor may also help - simply compare with the one on the opposite wheel. If mechanical the air gap, the rotor for damage etc. The fault code description points you as to which it might be.
A road test should find this. With the diagnostic computer connected and set to live data with all four ABS sensors on the screen, the operator can watch the readings. As soon as one shows a different reading from the others, even if momentarily, it should be investigated.
Actuator operations can be done using the computer so the valves in the ABS pump can be checked independently without removing it.
It is important to check the driveshafts for damage, suspension parts for movement , wheel bearings for wear (very important) as any movement here can upset the system.
I would get on to Ford Customer Services UK as time is running out although it should be remembered that a new part comes with 12 months warranty so if the new sensor is at fault even out of the warranty period, it should be replaced free of charge. Be careful what the independent garage does as having them replace parts may void the warranty so check the small print. If they cannot find the problem take it to a Bosch Service garage who will likely sort it for you. They have garages across the country - https://www.boschcarservice.com/gb/e...orkshop_search

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by Hometune;n195305

It sounds as though the dealer plugged his machine into the car, read the fault code(s) and simply changed the sensor without any proper testing. He should have separated the fault from an electrical one or a mechanical one. If electrical then the wiring from the sensor to the ABS module must be checked - this is common for bad connections or broken wires. A resistance check of the sensor may also help - simply compare with the one on the opposite wheel. If mechanical the air gap, the rotor for damage etc. The fault code description points you as to which it might be.
A road test should find this. With the diagnostic computer connected and set to live data with all four ABS sensors on the screen, the operator can watch the readings. As soon as one shows a different reading from the others, even if momentarily, it should be investigated.
Actuator operations can be done using the computer so the valves in the ABS pump can be checked independently without removing it.
It is important to check the driveshafts for damage, suspension parts for movement , wheel bearings for wear (very important) as any movement here can upset the system.
I would get on to Ford Customer Services UK as time is running out although it should be remembered that a new part comes with 12 months warranty so if the new sensor is at fault even out of the warranty period, it should be replaced free of charge. Be careful what the independent garage does as having them replace parts may void the warranty so check the small print. If they cannot find the problem take it to a Bosch Service garage who will likely sort it for you. They have garages across the country - https://www.boschcarservice.com/gb/e...orkshop_search

Good to know, and yes I agree, I don't intend to authorise any work to be done by the independent garage regarding this issue (unless it's quick, cheap and effective) precisely because of the warranty. However, the warranty is ultimately a moot point from a long term perspective, as I am now pending a p/x deal for this within the next week, and I have been advised that the Ford Protect warranty isn't transferrable to another dealer/trader.

I've taken note of your technical pointers, that could prove invaluable. Cheers!

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by absolutely80s;n195299

Really? Internet consensus appears to be that any advisories which aren’t resolved before sale may be viewed negatively by potential buyers, be it trade p/x or private.

Would depend on what the advisory was...but you are getting yours sorted out so nothing to worry about.

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by alan1302;n195307

Would depend on what the advisory was...but you are getting yours sorted out so nothing to worry about.

I am "trying" to get the ABS issue sorted, but per my earlier comments, I am encountering dealer intransigence head of p/x'ing the car, hence my concern.

[Hometune]

The advisory does seem very strange to me. Motman on here must have missed this as he is the font of all knowledge re MOTs. You can report the MOT to DVSA if you feel annoyed enough. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...n-about-an-mot

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by Hometune;n195309

The advisory does seem very strange to me. Motman on here must have missed this as he is the font of all knowledge re MOTs. You can report the MOT to DVSA if you feel annoyed enough. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...n-about-an-mot

I know, but having spoken with DVSA this morning, they said that testers are free to add whatever advisories they wish if they feel it relevant. Yes, hearing that did annoy me, but unless somebody can tell me definitively that shouldn’t have happened, I have to move on from that aspect of what’s going on. Right now, I want to get the car fixed, realise decent value from it, and move on. I really appreciate your comments!

[Motman]

Originally Posted by Hometune;n195309

The advisory does seem very strange to me. Motman on here must have missed this as he is the font of all knowledge re MOTs. You can report the MOT to DVSA if you feel annoyed enough. https://www.gov.uk/government/public...n-about-an-mot

I don’t think you can appeal on an advisory notice though as it’s only the personal opinion of the tester. Mind you, there’s opinions and there’s opinions. I may have appealed this advisory if it was me! (I have deliberately obscured the offending word!)

[alan1302]

Originally Posted by absolutely80s;n195312

I know, but having spoken with DVSA this morning, they said that testers are free to add whatever advisories they wish if they feel it relevant. Yes, hearing that did annoy me, but unless somebody can tell me definitively that shouldn’t have happened, I have to move on from that aspect of what’s going on. Right now, I want to get the car fixed, realise decent value from it, and move on. I really appreciate your comments!

DVSA have said that it's acceptable - and they only put down on the advisory what you told them sometimes happens so they have not made anything up.

[absolutely80s]

So, the saga continues....

Retrieved Kuga from local independent garage who told me that after investigating all sensors, the previously newly replaced ABS sensor was "fitted incorrectly", hence the continued appearance of the warning lights, and the clanking noise from under the car. In addition, it was their conclusion, upon proper investigation of that sensor, is that the new sensor required a new wheel bearing as it was the pick up ring that was at fault (and the likely core of the overall issue).

No remedial work was undertaken due to the ford warranty, and Kuga is due in to Ford on Tuesday to be fixed - hopefully once and for all if they take heed of the mechanic's summary written on the invoice. I imagine Ford will do it quickly to get rid of me knowing that I'm trading in to a non-Ford dealer (thereby rendering the remainder of the warranty void anyway).

Re. the MOT advisories, this local garage is a testing centre too, and their tester told me directly that the ABS advisory isn't something he would have included because it wasn't witnessed during the test. Interesting, but it worryingly hints at inconsistencies among testing centres.

I'll post again on Tuesday only If there's anything other than a swift conclusion to this sorry affair. Thanks to all for your comments and suggestions, massively appreciated!

[Hometune]

Fingers crossed for Tuesday. Ford dealer can't get the staff. Obviously!

[christycooling]

The car has passed, but you free to add valid m.o.t advisory.

[absolutely80s]

So, after having an independent garage inspect the Kuga last week, it yesterday went in for its scheduled appointment with Ford to be "fixed".

Before leaving it there, I took one of their "technicians" for a test drive in it. As is always the way, the ABS/stability warning lights did not appear, but there was some pulling when braking, and the intermittent clanging type of noise underneath did present itself. So I left it with them. And i have today collected it, and all now appears fine. However, the diagnosis by the independent garage was not upheld by Ford, instead finding that the culprit was a broken / corroded wire to the previously replaced sensor. They explained this was the reason for the warning lights appearing ad hoc. On questioning them about the noise and lurch however, they said these issues didn't present themselves during diagnostics (yet the mechanic witnessed this during the test drive). Ford stated that, if the independent garage's view regarding the pick up ring had been correct, then the car would not have passed its MOT last week anyway - which it did, of course. I have no idea whether that's correct or not, nor whether Ford will say anything just to get rid of me by now.

Anyway, having test driven the Kuga today, all issues appear resolved. Touch wood this continues until it gets sold to the car buying company coming to inspect it next week.

[Santa]

For what it's worth, the "car buying company" will be far more interested in the condition of the bodywork and interior trim than the mechanics. I sold a car to WBAC and the guy spotted a couple of minor dings and a repair that must have been done before I bought it as I had no idea. His magnet did not lie, however.

If you have had an online quote, take 10% off in your head, as they will almost certainly find some reason to reduce their offer. Be sure to present the car as you would to a private buyer - clean and shiny, but don't go OTT and start polishing the engine.

[Hometune]

Originally Posted by absolutely80s;n195401

So, after having an independent garage inspect the Kuga last week, it yesterday went in for its scheduled appointment with Ford to be "fixed".

Before leaving it there, I took one of their "technicians" for a test drive in it. As is always the way, the ABS/stability warning lights did not appear, but there was some pulling when braking, and the intermittent clanging type of noise underneath did present itself. So I left it with them. And i have today collected it, and all now appears fine. However, the diagnosis by the independent garage was not upheld by Ford, instead finding that the culprit was a broken / corroded wire to the previously replaced sensor. They explained this was the reason for the warning lights appearing ad hoc. On questioning them about the noise and lurch however, they said these issues didn't present themselves during diagnostics (yet the mechanic witnessed this during the test drive). Ford stated that, if the independent garage's view regarding the pick up ring had been correct, then the car would not have passed its MOT last week anyway - which it did, of course. I have no idea whether that's correct or not, nor whether Ford will say anything just to get rid of me by now.

Anyway, having test driven the Kuga today, all issues appear resolved. Touch wood this continues until it gets sold to the car buying company coming to inspect it next week.

So in fact Ford got their original diagnostic wrong. They replaced a sensor that was perfectly okay. They did not check the wiring to the sensor - a basic and simple test - and now they are saying the independent is wrong. It might have restored your faith in them if they had said, "Sorry, we fitted a new sensor thinking that was the problem. It was in fact the wiring to the sensor so by way of apology for all the hassle, here is an M&S voucher for £20." We can but dream......

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by Hometune;n195420

So in fact Ford got their original diagnostic wrong. They replaced a sensor that was perfectly okay. They did not check the wiring to the sensor - a basic and simple test - and now they are saying the independent is wrong. It might have restored your faith in them if they had said, "Sorry, we fitted a new sensor thinking that was the problem. It was in fact the wiring to the sensor so by way of apology for all the hassle, here is an M&S voucher for £20." We can but dream......

It’s ironic isn’t it :)
I’m well and truly done with debating the matter with them now. New motor arrives Monday, a three year old X-Trail. Onwards and upwards! Thanks for your input, much appreciated.

[Drivingforfun]

Something like that would make a lot of people inclined to buy another car, when the time comes. I don’t know why they don’t do it!

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by Drivingforfun;n195423

Something like that would make a lot of people inclined to buy another car, when the time comes. I don’t know why they don’t do it!

Very true. I had to do something before the warranty expires (November) and while there was a semblance of value still in the vehicle. I certainly won’t be recommending the dealer to anyone, that’s for sure!

[Trainman]

I had a similar experience with a VW and 3 VW dealers. All useless

[absolutely80s]

Kuga has now been sold, so that's that. However, on taking delivery yesterday of my replacement motor, a 3 year old Nissan X-Trail Tekna 1.6dci (internet purchase via a broker, but the car came from a main dealership in Yorkshire), there are several cosmetic issues they didn't make me aware of, including dings and dents, and a badly completed smart repair to paintwork. The broker has offered a derisory £150 as a goodwill gesture. The ongoing saga of dodgy dealers continues.....

[Hometune]

A good dent man will sort out most of the dings and dents in an hour so not too expensive but paint starts to cost......

[absolutely80s]

Originally Posted by Hometune;n195558

A good dent man will sort out most of the dings and dents in an hour so not too expensive but paint starts to cost......

Yes, just had paint chap here, quoted £250 for the main areas needed after the dents have been rectified. He reckoned 70 for the dents themselves.