Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: NIP For Driving Without Due Care AND contravening a red light?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1

    Default NIP For Driving Without Due Care AND contravening a red light?

    Hi,

    So, sometime last week i was driving along and was coming up to a pedestrian crossing (right outside a school which didnt help, at 8:50am).

    There was a trucker right up my backside and it was a bright frosty morning. As i approached the the crossing i slowed down to around 20-25mph but as i was quite close to the lights they chaged to amber, getting ready to go to red. With a large lorry directly behind me i didnt think that it was a good idea to suddenly stop so i was going to carry on over the crossing rather than slam my breaks on but as i was carring on over the crossing i noticed 2 or 3 children and a couple of parents begining to cross, the children started running into the road, i performed a controlled stop and one of the kids nearly ran out in front of me.

    They took a couple of steps back towareds the parents and by this time i was on top of the crossing. To clear the path of the pedestrians i had to carry on over the crossing as i could not reverse back due to the lorry (i did this slowly). I carried on my way to work, and thought nothing else of it.

    I have recently recieved a notice of intent prosection through the post (i was in a company van so was delivered to work) asking who the driver of the van was - i have yet to fill out and send off.

    I dont understand how this has happened as there are no red light signal cameras anywhere near this area, i could see no police cars, there are no roadwork cameras nor are there any surveillance cameras. The only thing i can think of is that one of the parents have made a complaint and they are following it up. I went to see a solicitor about it and they thihk that i will receive a summons through the post once i send the NIP back.

    I just dont understand how they can take it this far just on a little complaint from some average joe taking their kids to school. I did not see a lollypop lady/man there either. Do you think i will get off on lack of evidence? Im just really worried about going to court or having to attend a police interview as i have been in that situation before and they just incriminate you.

    Any advise?

    Thanks in advance,

    Dave.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    8,749

    Default

    Hi Dave, welcome to the site, I think it was one of the parents that put in a complaint, and as there were witnesses at the time, the odds are against you I am afraid to say.
    The fact that kids were involved will go against you as well.

    The fact that you couldn't stop in time on such a crossing, regardless of what was behind you, will be the main charge against you.
    I could be wrong of course, but you can let us know what happens
    Cheers, Smudger.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,118

    Default

    bad news then, but im assuming that the trucker stopped, which probably means he was expecting you to stop too, i guess some would have said you should have jumped on your brakes, even if the guy behind crashed into the back of you, it would have been his fault for driving too close

    tommy

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    6,379

    Default

    I would say that you need to get a witness to how close the truck was behind you. I understand your dilemma, if you had braked and been hit by the truck, who knows where you may have ended up, in among the children perhaps. I would explore that thought with my solicitor.
    Good Luck.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,081

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dna1409 View Post
    Hi,

    So, sometime last week i was driving along and was coming up to a pedestrian crossing (right outside a school which didnt help, at 8:50am).
    So you was paying more attention as you was driving near a school at that time of day?

    Quote Originally Posted by dna1409 View Post
    There was a trucker right up my backside and it was a bright frosty morning. As i approached the the crossing i slowed down to around 20-25mph but as i was quite close to the lights they chaged to amber, getting ready to go to red.
    If you could not stop in time then you was driving to fast and not paying enough attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by dna1409 View Post
    so i was going to carry on over the crossing rather than slam my breaks on but as i was carring on over the crossing i noticed 2 or 3 children and a couple of parents begining to cross, the children started running into the road, i performed a controlled stop and one of the kids nearly ran out in front of me.
    So you could not stop in time safely before the crossing but you could stop safely and quite suddenly on the crossing and still not get hit by the lorry

    Quote Originally Posted by dna1409 View Post
    They took a couple of steps back towareds the parents and by this time i was on top of the crossing. To clear the path of the pedestrians i had to carry on over the crossing as i could not reverse back due to the lorry (i did this slowly). I carried on my way to work, and thought nothing else of it.
    Maybe you could have said sorry and explained to them about the lorry and your fears.

    Quote Originally Posted by dna1409 View Post
    I have recently recieved a notice of intent prosection through the post
    I dont understand how this has happened as there are no red light signal cameras anywhere near this area, i could see no police cars, there are no roadwork cameras nor are there any surveillance cameras.

    The only thing i can think of is that one of the parents have made a complaint and they are following it up.
    Yes the parents have more than likely made a complaint to the police that they were nearly run over etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dna1409 View Post
    I went to see a solicitor about it and they thihk that i will receive a summons through the post once i send the NIP back.
    Yes you may well receive a summons if the police and cps decide to take it further.

    Quote Originally Posted by dna1409 View Post
    I just dont understand how they can take it this far just on a little complaint from some average joe taking their kids to school .
    Your average member of public as you put it can raise a complaint and it can be acted on.

    Quote Originally Posted by dna1409 View Post
    Do you think i will get off on lack of evidence? Im just really worried about going to court or having to attend a police interview as i have been in that situation before and they just incriminate you.
    Maybe but maybe not.It would depend on witness etc.You clearly state yourself you committed the offence.
    It would depend on mitigating factors i.e. your belief the lorry would have hit you.It would be best to see what your solicitor thinks your chances are.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,214

    Default

    I understand being tailgated can make it difficult with crossings and it can make it look as if you are doing something worse than you're actually doing e.g. it's not sensible to stop as it will cause a rear-ender from the moron behind. But maybe 20-25 was a bit too much for a school crossing area at that time of day, especially if you knew the road? I don't know, only my thoughts. Also it depends on how many people complained, if it is just one person's word against yours it should be OK as no-one can prove either way. But for a NIP to get to you I would have thought it would need more than just one person to testify against you.

    You state you were in a work van - society in general is not sympathetic of 'van men' - I must admit they have some reason seeing the way a lot of them are driven - however I'm not saying for one minute that's the case with you. Anyway if you're desperate you could try going down the line of because of people's natural antipathy towards white van men they may have exaggerated the story. Also they would probably have been angry at the time of reporting it and that can often lead people to exaggerate the situation.

    Do you know what they actually said to the police? Anyway, you will get your chance to defend yourself against their accusation so just be honest and tell them about the lorry behind you factor etc. Good luck.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    8,590

    Default

    Around the schools in our area, all the crossings (even light controlled) have crossing guides. It is possible that you were reported by a crossing patrol.

    On the subject of your concern that you were feeling intimidated by a following lorry, I don't think this will carry any weight.

    It is not acceptable in law that you can place people in danger in front of you to avoid being involved in a collision from someone behind you.

    Your best chance for defence would be if pedestrian traffic had started the process of crossing before the red light came on (the pedestrian signal would not turn green until this time), but it is a difficult situation to prove.

    The law says that we must be able to stop at any time as we approach a pedestrian crossing, but we all know that, at some point, this is not possible unless we came to a stop, and then set off again. The administrators of the law (e.g. police) conveniently avoid arguing this issue.

    Your worst enemy is the length of time that the amber light dwelled before turning red.
    This time factor would be the basis for an argument that "you had ample time to slow down and stop on your approach" versus "if you were too close, the amber light would have carried you through the crossing, and you would not have seen a red light in your field of vision".

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Middlesex
    Posts
    8,509

    Default

    I see this as a no-win situation. By what you say, you had a choice of risk of damage to either your car, or the people using the crossing. Unfortunately, you made the wrong choice. Putting the risk of damage to your car over the risk of damage to people will not bode well in Court, and I think it will go that far. My assumption is that one or more of the parents has made a complaint, and been backed up by others. Possibly other parents on the footpath approaching the crossing. Sorry to be negative about this, but that's how I see it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •