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Thread: info about new motorway laws for 2013

  1. #21
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    I was told quite emphatically that the speed limit on all lanes of motorways are 70mph unless signed otherwise on a visit to Leicester Motorway Control Centre, and I have never found anything to say otherwise. I also read in the Highway Code that it was OK to pass, on the left, slower moving traffic in an outer lane. Maybe a quick flash, from the nearside lane, to warn of his presence would be acceptable, possibly a toot of the horn if he thought the car driver was 'asleep'. So, yes, I would consider that the lorry driver was at least being aggressive. Not necessarily illegal, but definitely questionable of a driver hauling X amount of fuel.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC1474 View Post
    You have made a statement of fact, please provide act and section that say it is illegal to overtake on the inside lane on a Motorway?

    Where does it say that a nearside overtake is illegal (and please do not say the Highway Code) because it mentions nothing about it being an offence and in any case is not a legal requirement unless supported by an act and section or traffic regulation.
    Well - The Highway code does say in Rule 163:
    Overtake only when it is safe and legal to do so. You should
    ~
    only overtake on the left if the vehicle in front is signalling to turn right, and there is room to do so

    stay in your lane if traffic is moving slowly in queues. If the queue on your right is moving more slowly than you are, you may pass on the left
    I accept that this does not make it a specific offence, but many truck drivers believe that, in circumstances other than those described above, it is, or at least might constitute careless driving, or or driving without due care, and I have seen posts on another forum, where truck drivers have been, how can I put it? obliged to have a chat with a policeman.

    The "madman" description in my post was the car drivers description. This was a driver who believed that he had some God given right to occupy the centre lane.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolebama View Post
    I was told quite emphatically that the speed limit on all lanes of motorways are 70mph unless signed otherwise on a visit to Leicester Motorway Control Centre, and I have never found anything to say otherwise. I also read in the Highway Code that it was OK to pass, on the left, slower moving traffic in an outer lane. Maybe a quick flash, from the nearside lane, to warn of his presence would be acceptable, possibly a toot of the horn if he thought the car driver was 'asleep'. So, yes, I would consider that the lorry driver was at least being aggressive. Not necessarily illegal, but definitely questionable of a driver hauling X amount of fuel.
    70 mph yes, but only for certain vehicles.

    And Santa has posted what the HC really says.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santa View Post
    Well - The Highway code does say in Rule 163:


    I accept that this does not make it a specific offence, but many truck drivers believe that, in circumstances other than those described above, it is, or at least might constitute careless driving, or or driving without due care, and I have seen posts on another forum, where truck drivers have been, how can I put it? obliged to have a chat with a policeman.
    They're the same thing. Depending on the circumstances, it could even be dangerous driving.

  5. #25
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    I still believe there is a difference between passing and overtaking. If you stay in a lane on a motorway and pass a slower moving vehicle without changing lanes, you pass it. Overtaking is when you change lanes to pass a slower moving vehicle then pull back into a lane in front of it.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rolebama View Post
    I still believe there is a difference between passing and overtaking. If you stay in a lane on a motorway and pass a slower moving vehicle without changing lanes, you pass it. Overtaking is when you change lanes to pass a slower moving vehicle then pull back into a lane in front of it.
    None of the dictionaries I've looked at agree with you.

    The nearest I can find to a legal definition of overtake is "to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction" (from the Zebra, Pelican, etc. Regs), which the HC translates as "overtake". No mention of changing lanes.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santa View Post
    but many truck drivers believe that, in circumstances other than those described above, it is, or at least might constitute careless driving, or or driving without due care, and I have seen posts on another forum, where truck drivers have been, how can I put it? obliged to have a chat with a policeman.
    You are partially correct. When the specific offence of nearside overtake was removed from the statute book, it left careless or dangerous driving (which back in 72 was actually careless driving but changed to dangerous because to prove reckless the prosecution had to prove a state of mind)

    To prove careless driving, it has to be proven beyond all reasonable doubt that the standard of driving fell well below that expected of a reasonably safe and competent driver, and the simple act of a nearside overtake on its own is insufficient.

    If a driver undertakes and then weaves from lane to lane at high speed, and there is a combination of both overtaking and undertaking at speed, then that could be sufficient to obtain a conviction, but it depends on the evidence, the circumstances and the nature of how the alleged offence was committed.

    If a driver passes on the nearside because someone is hogging the centre lane and a collision occurs because the vehicle in the centre lane returned to lane 1 after spending a lot of time in lane 2 for example when there was no need, then in a crash primary liability remains with the driver returning to lane 1 because they have a statutory duty of care to ensure that it is safe to change lanes before commencing their manoeuvre.

    Even the civil courts are now accepting this position.

    To prove that someone who undertakes on a Motorway because of someone hogging lane 2 is guilty of careless or dangerous driving is difficult.

    I actually got pulled for it a few weeks ago. The Copper was going to book me for careless driving, and so I said "Feel free, I will see you in court and contest it" The puzzled look he gave me was a picture and so I gave him a quick lesson on traffic law.

    Suffice to say, he went away grumbling about something or other, but that is where part of the problem lies in that nowadays the few traffic policemen out there are not as knowledgeable on traffic law as they used to be, mainly because now many only do a 1 or 2 week traffic law course, whereas in my day it was a 13 week traffic law course, and many are not in any case career traffic policemen, but policemen who just want a bit of additional experience on their CV.

  8. #28
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    Quote.... Suffice to say, he went away grumbling about something or other, but that is where part of the problem lies in that nowadays the few traffic policemen out there are not as knowledgeable on traffic law as they used to be, mainly because now many only do a 1 or 2 week traffic law course, whereas in my day it was a 13 week traffic law course, and many are not in any case career traffic policemen, but policemen who just want a bit of additional experience on their CV.
    So the old phrase "ignorance of the law is no defence" gets thrown out of the window! If I knew all the laws of the land I would be Chief Judge!
    I believe that a law never repealed says that "a person may urinate in public on the rear wheel of his carriage if he has the need to do so" So the carriage is now the car!! (Comment meant in fun and not for serious intention)

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainman View Post
    So the old phrase "ignorance of the law is no defence" gets thrown out of the window! (Comment meant in fun and not for serious intention)
    I know what you are saying, but you do at least expect those who enforce the regulations to be up to speed and conversant with those laws they specialise in enforcing.

    But there is ignorance of the law and then their is ignorance. Look how many people, for examples on forums, make unfounded statements of fact on a point of law, because it is what they believe to be fact.

    There are many laws that have never been repealed, for example it is still a legal requirement for all males over the age of 14 to practice archery for at least 1 hour every Sunday, and the law you refer to is that it is still officially legal to urinate from the back of moving horse drawn wagon, although chances are you would get nicked for indecent exposure or a public order offence.
    Last edited by TC1474; 12-12-13 at 13:58.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beelzebub View Post
    None of the dictionaries I've looked at agree with you.

    The nearest I can find to a legal definition of overtake is "to pass ahead of the foremost part of any other motor vehicle proceeding in the same direction" (from the Zebra, Pelican, etc. Regs), which the HC translates as "overtake". No mention of changing lanes.
    Oh well the Highway Code must be right and must be traffic law

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