Santa, Trainman, consider a recent news item where some 9 million people are in serious debt. Obviously, in many cases, this is because these people cannot administer their own budgeting arrangements. Some will be car owners. What has to be remembered is that, in the case of motor vehicles, there are third parties to be considered, and the risks of insurers getting through loopholes and leaving them financially unprotected if a vehicle's 'right-of-passage' documentation is not in order.
Santa and Trainman, like myself and most others, are able to deal with these changes without blinking an eye. But, for various reasons, some cannot, and government have a duty to cater for all levels of society - not just levels that please government.
It is interesting to note that an electronic system is already in place with ANPR and the DVLA pounce on cars not taxed. They have vans that target untaxed cars and indeed I saw 2 cars lifted and taken away, near me, from what appeared to be law abiding people. The vans can been seen regularly around roads in our area.
Appreciate I'm late in commenting on this but AFAIAC this is not nostalgia! What - as always - is forgotten is that there are on-going huge police cutbacks and a fair bit of the country is not geared up with sexy cameras, etc. With a tax disc, you could quietly suggest that a particular vehicle - even when you knew the b****r hasn't paid for years - was kept an eye on, it usually got followed up by the pollis. That led to some serious convictions (at least here and down in Midlands rural area I lived in). And of course, everyone thinks that everyone can use the Internet or access it via mobile phone etc. You should know the number of folks who assume everywhere has mobile phone connections - well, you should experience life in the sticks - or even parts of inner cities! We're at dial-up speed now and someone I need to contact regularly regarding rallies is having all his stuff sent to me so I can print it and deliver it to him because his paltry broadband has gone down and nowt can be done about it!
Technology is great but, if measures are being brought in by Gov'ts, then it must be accessible to all and the ostriches have their heads in the sand. Take Wednesday here! Power off at around 0715. Not restored until around 1600 hours. I have a blind disabled wheelchair dependent Mum The carers - good ladies - had to leave Mum lying in bed (and they did their best for her comfort) because they could not use the electrically-powered hoist. In that position, Mum could neither drink nor eat. Mobile reception was down and landlines weren't working properly and anyone using a computer phone link was not contactable - including my key contacts with the providers of Mum's care and they couldn't contact their own carers to be sure they were safe. In other words - chaos. Son and I got Mum up but what happened to those who are dependent on electrical equipment to move them God knows. And look at today's problem with Nats - thousands affected.
PS - Christmas present will be a generator!!
Ah, but you're supposed to look on the bright side, FJ. If the government achieves a target for anything above 75% of the population then, in their estimation, they have done a fantastic job. What's their stock phrase to cover themselves? - "there will be winners and losers" but, overall, well done us!!!
There is frequently a vehicle parked on the grass verge, with an ANPR camera on a tripod, alongside the road which leads from our small town to junction 21 of the M1, where the M69 also commences.
Originally Posted by Trainman
There is nowhere nearby to pull vehicles in, and I haven't seen any stopped further on along this road. As it has been there several times, they must be catching something.
FJ and others.
If you have no (or v slow) internet, then you can do this stuff on a landline or at a post office. As far as enforcement goes, I am sure that it will become an automatic thing, just like insurance is now. If you 'forget' to tax your car, you will get a reminder in the post, and if that doesn't work, you will have to pay a fine or explain to the local beak (or the Procurator Fiscal?) why. It won't matter that you have it parked in your garage, or on some remote island - if it's not SORNed it must be taxed, MOT'd and insured.
Quote......."It won't matter that you have it parked in your garage, or on some remote island - if it's not SORNed it must be taxed, MOT'd and insured."
Ah! that explains it better, I was told that you had to have your car insured and taxed, even it was SORNed, and parked in your own garage or drive?
A bit like that law that caught us out, when we were trying to sell our house up North, when we were working and living here in Fife.
It seemed that after 6 months, we had to pay 50% of the council tax, for a house we were not even living in, as well as full council tax and rent, for the house we were renting down here.
We were told the reason for that law being made, was so that folk who had holiday homes here is Scotland, paid for it while it was not being lived in, but it just happened to catch folk like us out, in the position we were in?
Santa, I'm afraid I have missed the point of your last sentence. I do keep my car legal but it is increasingly difficult to do so because Gov't assume that, if a high percentage of the population do have Internet access and/or mobile coverage, then everything is hunkey-dorey. Regrettably, we do not have infallible systems (whether it's because someone designing a computer programme didn't think of all possible scenarios or because of physical problems with the system) - even when they are available. Our issues here with everything out and people's lives at risk was a case in point and, as mentioned, just look at the potential hundreds of thousands who have had plans wrecked because of an internal computer glitch at Nats.
Originally Posted by Santa
We are about to lose our PO, so that's not going to be an option. Landline wiring is so ancient - but we're way down the list for the wiring to be replaced and we sure as hell aren't even on the list for fibre optic - so landlines are pretty dire and cost a shedload of dosh to get through. When I had my tax and MoT issues this year, just went to local cop shop and told them why. Guess what? Cop shop is closing under cuts. I don't think you're seriously suggesting that we're going to get ANPR cameras over here - Good Lord, we only get the traffic cops over 4/5 times a year! That presents a risk to law-abiding drivers who could well be clobbered by those who have chosen not to abide by the law.
You and particularly Gov'ts have forgotten that there are many people who are unable to use the technology - my Mum has got to the stage when she can't use her Telecare buzzer but there are plenty of other folks who cannot access even basic help. How many people on here get utterly fed up of phoning a helpline and being told to use the respective company/organisation's website when you can't access the Internet?
We get shedloads of tourists totally hacked off by no mobile or wi-fit access - okay, if it's so important they should have asked the question - because they - like the powers that be - believe the b******t about coverage and cannot conceive that there are places where things like that just don't exist.
Sorry FJ - I am so not having a pop at you.
If communications are that bad, I am not convinced that the proposed new system is any worse than what you have now. With no post office and no internet, then you presumably rely on snail mail. The new system is just the same, with the added option of being able to make the payments automatic from your bank.
As far as enforcement goes - I say again.... If a driver anywhere fails to renew, they will be in trouble. Whether the registered keeper gets the reminder or not, it is their responsibility to ensure that the vehicle is legal. The police don't need to come anywhere near - the fact that a person has a car that is not SORNed will trigger a response if the VED is not paid. Just as now happens with insurance.
Last edited by Santa; 07-12-13 at 23:52.