03 renault master van/ ambulance
hi guys can anyone help, bought a 03 2.2 renault master van/ ambulance was going great however wouldnt start one morning, found fuel on the floor from the return pipe after trying to start it which for some reason came off at the clip ? anyway fixed pipe, re-bled the system all the way up to the injector rail, still wont start , noticed the glow plug light isnt on , checked the feed to the glow plugs ,no feed but there is a 12v feed to the main glow plug relay checked the glow plugs all o.k, plugged a diagnostic in but it wouldnt read the ecu, tried another reader and that said immobiliser / cleared the fault but still wont fire up , lights on the dash are working red light goes out when cranking so that suggests the immobiliser is o.k now run out of ideas can anyone help apart from setting fire to it problem is if you cant get a reading from the reader then how can you repair it , bring back old school pls, all this modern tech is good while it works , it all seems that there isnt any signal coming from the ECU, is it possible that because its a ambulance that they have fitted a safety factor in that switches off the ucu in event of a fuel leak, its so frustrating when one moment its perfectly o.k then its not and you cant fix it because of the modern technology.::any input would help......... just checked immobiliser light flashes with key in,flashes on position 1, goes off when going to crank engine over , is this showing immobiliser is working correctly or not because other threads have problems when red light stays on when cranking
Last edited by colin crossingh; 22-01-12 at 23:44.
Reason: spelling ect
Immobiliser light flashes around once a second when the system is armed. When you put the key in the light stops flashing and becomes steady red. Turn the ignition on. After 2-5 secs the light goes out. The engine should start.
The diagnostic tool will access the immobiliser even if there is no communication with the engine ecu. Then you can see where the fault is. If you have the security code for the vehicle some advanced tools will allow this to be input and this will allow starting.
If you have a second key try that first. Renault keys are very common failures.
03 renault master
thanks for your help, the light does go out as you say, still wont start tho,no light on for the glow plugs either, swapped alluminium relay for glow plugs still no light,there is a 12v feed going to the relay but nothing coming out to the plugs glow plugs are o.k with a tester, fuel is primed up ,no air checked all electrical relays and fuses all o.k,just run out of idea,s just does,nt seem to be any pressure at injectors when i cracked them open to see if there was any air in the line but i guess its not going to fire up if there is no pre heat will it, tried a little easy start to see if it would go and it did but stopped as the easy start ran out dont want to go down that road really, is it possible the immobiliser is telling lies and its still shutting off the fuel, glow plugs and pump
Big mistake opening the injectors. This is a common rail engine. As soon as you open the injector connection you lose all fuel pressure and allow air into the rail. In any case if you open the injectors while cranking you could be injected through the skin with 4,500psi fuel pressure. Absolute no-no.
You say you are bleeding the system. Why? As stated this is common rail and there is an electric fuel pump fitted in the system to prime so there is no need to bleed anything, it is self bleeding. You switch the ignition on and the pump will run until the air is expelled. When I change fuel filters, I do this 3 times just to be sure and they always start.
The pump has a relay so if the pump is not running you need to check firstly the fuel cut off switch(close to the filter), then fuse, then the relay if no feed at the pump. Apply 12v directly to the pump and if it does not run then you know its faulty.
At this stage I would ignore the glow plug problem as this engine should start without them from around 0c upwards.
Last edited by Hometune; 23-01-12 at 23:22.
I assume the OP meant to post this here..
thanks , the pump is burried in the top of the tank, the tank is half full, dont reckon the pump is going becouse it not making any sound when you turn ignition on, so i will look for the relay i believe its under the steering column somwhere, the fuel cut off is o.k will get back to you as soon as i have found it all, cheers colin.
on another note im just a little puzzled why is there no glow plug light on at the dash then, does the relay only get energized when the rail gets pressurized and switches that solonoid at the end of the rail , because the glow plug relay has a 12v live feed and the only wires out go to the glow plugs and that pressure switch, the more im getting into this it seems to be a fuel problem, i have a freind who has the same van and he has the same flashing code dash board light as me so that side seems to be o.k his starts o.k which means its actually excepting the key ? i have a sneaky feeling its the fuel pump, well i will wait until the rain stops and get at it.
For the rail to get pressurised the engine would crank a couple of times so this is not how it is switched on. The glow plug module is signalled from the ECU. It has a live feed but it is not energised until the ECU makes the circuit. If the module is ok then cheapest option would be to put a switch in a circuit for manually operating the glow plugs.
Hi Mike, this should really be in the Technical section but if it makes it easier we can leave it here.
Last edited by Hometune; 24-01-12 at 12:51.
sorry guys, didnt know about the e-mail bit, however tomorrow is another day and im gonna beat this van , i have just as a last minute thing in the rain just to end the day pulled out the crank sensor and the reading were 22.9 ohm so i guess that rules another item out,cant be much left to cross off the list at least when someone asks i can say ive done that bit, basically im not convinced its not the pressure solenoid on the rail, do you know how to check this , is it just a make or break switch as i see its wired up to the same relay as the glow plugs,i have thought of placing the switch in as you say but i would like to have it right before reverting to a plan B
I'm not sure where you are going with this. You dont seem to be keeping to a diagnostic test plan, just jumping about.
Check the low pressure fuel pump. Does it supply fuel to the filter? Simply disconnect the 'in' pipe, switch the ignition on and you will soon see. The engine does NOT have to be turning for this test. Is there power to the pump? Fuse ok? Relay ok?
A faulty fuel pressure rail sensor will stop the engine starting but why you are obsessed with it is beyond me. And its not a solenoid, it is a switch. The fuel pressure solenoid will be on the pump.
Oh, and the wiring diagram on the Bosch KTS 570 Diagnostic Tool must be wrong then if the glow plug wiring does not seem to fit with your plan. As the engine management system is Bosch EDC then you must know more than all the technicians in Germany. Has it never occurred to your expert mind that glow plugs are switched on BEFORE the engine turns over at which point the fuel rail sensor comes on line? If I sound pi##ed off its because I have spent time trying to help you including looking up all the necessary info on the Bosch computer.
Obviously all my help here is falling on deaf ears so I'm out of this thread. Bye bye.