We discussed this a while back didn't we? It would be a good idea as it will stop people having to pay for the incompetence of some 'mechanics' but, I think it would be negated by a sharp increase of the prices of repairs.
Originally Posted by wagolynn
The problem is although main dealers seem to have this prestigious image in the eye of the public they are some of the worst offenders when it comes to cutting corners or having a vast lack of diagnostic skills.
Main dealers corner cutting includes not changing brake fluid, Pollen filters etc.
Of course not forgetting how many of the 'dodgy' main dealers charged customers for diagnostic checks that were not necessary to diagnose the faults on certain models.
Some Vehicles (Toyota springs to mind) had a light that came on in the dash cluster when the timing belt was due for a change.
I agree with Hometune about changing them early, It's alot more cost effective than having one break.
While we can offer pearls of wisdom, People have a choice of listening or not and often they don't.
Just a thought - were does this "the garage is liable for not informing" stop?
Has the orignal owner (from the 70's) of my MGB got redress against the garage for not infoming him to waxoil the wings and sills because approx 30 year later they became rusty and rotten (and guess who had to repair them )?
- okay I realise a bit silly but like I said where does it stop?
Do you know they didn’t and like many ‘progressive’ things in the aftermarket, Waxol treatment was frequently poorly done, not sure, if it was due to lack of knowledge or, what the customer does not see, does not matter.
You have to remember that a timing belt is a SERVICE item as opposed to your rusting MGB. But it is a service item that may only be replaced just once or twice in the life of the car. MrDanno's comparison with the VW customer above doesn't match as checking the oil level is a weekly/monthly requirement and I believe it is part of the current driving test to know how to do this?
Originally Posted by WRX._.GTi
Most people know that an oil filter needs replacing at a service, even the non-car types. Again most will know the spark plugs need changing at some point along with the air filter. The problem is that some plugs are lifed at 60,000 miles, some at 40,000 miles, some 20,000 miles and some annually. Without a service schedule/booklet you are very unlikely to know this.
In MGB days you replaced the air filter every year along with the plugs so it was all quite simple. In my car for example, the air filter is only replaced at the third service irrespective of condition or mileage which I don't agree with. As this area becomes ever more complex complaints like this will become more common and I agree with MrDanno's observation about the quality of performance by some main dealers.
The motor trade as a whole has been for years trying to clean up its act with various schemes to reassure motorists that they will be treated honestly and fairly. When threatened with a 'super complaint' the trade came up with in-house ideas. The Good Garage Scheme and the Accredited Technician initiative are just 2 of those running today. Many schemes have been tried in the past and they have let the motorist down. Until the government places this area of concern under the control of VOSA (Dept of Transport originally) then I can't see anything improving. You only have to look at the posts on here by members of the trade to see that we are a long, long way from improvement.
Curiously, the OP has not replied at any stage to this thread???
Last edited by Hometune; 29-07-10 at 12:48.
My comment about the lack of checking the oil was to highlight that although some people know these things need doing, They choose not to bother. Fifth gears Johnny Smith went around a supermarket car park asking people about how often they checked their oil and got a few replies of 'never'.
While I am very surprised that the dealer in question never suggested to the OP that the timing belt should be changed, I still think the owner has a portion of responsibility to share.
***...and I realise I'm going of topic!?***
You raise a very good point about servicing and oil etc.
Personally regarding my motley collection of cars (Jalopies?) Items like Air filters and plugs are changed every year regardless and as for oil I am very strict at a change every 3000 mile. Some may say this is over-kill but then at around a tenner for the oil and approx £6 for genuine oil filters (they are all still available) than why not; it certainly ain't doing no harm!
Another vehicle of mine has the famous 1980's Toyota 4AGE unit (which is a damn good replica of the late 60's & 70's Ford BDA power unit - pistons and con-rods the same dimensions - Japan invents nothing they just copy and improve!). Although this is a more modern engine I still feel that regular (at least every3000 miles) oil changes has helped in its long life.
I know manufacturers claim car engines can do 12000 mile plus etc without an oil change but the sake of less than 20quid is it really worth it!
Last edited by WRX._.GTi; 29-07-10 at 15:04.
When we bought our own cars, I used to do the oil/filter changes myself, until I realised I could get it done at places like Kwik-Fit for less than the price I was paying for the filter and oil.
Being a garage owner myself I Tend not to upsale anymore as the customer just seems to think you are just here to take more money of them so i only do what i am asked to do when the vehicle comes in for repair and it is always broken down already when it comes in for repair so you can imagine the bill is always double compared to what it would be if the car was booked in for say a Cambelt replacement.
Dont get me wrong on standard servicing i still point out what will need attention in the future and the advisory work etc.
But until the customer understands that if you drive a car you are going to get bills for it, or normal wear and tear the industry is not going to change one bit.
A Lot of the problem is there is no loyalty with people any more and it always comes down to money whose the cheapest and this is where the customer goes wrong because the cheapest is where the problems start somebody is then cutting corners hence further big bills down the road, all the customer is doing is going round and round in circles TO THEY GET TO THE POINT OF NOT KNOWING WHO TO BELIEVE.
I Hear so many times, well i am selling the car next week so i wont bother with the Cambelt to quick and happy to pass the buck onto somebody else but when it happens to them they do not like it
Stick to the service schedules in the hand book that is the cheapest way to run a car ALWAYS if in doubt get a second or third opinion from independent garages and do not go with the cheapest quote pick a quote in the middle and check the same parts are being used ****mple i never do a cambelt unless a water pump is also changed unless the water pump is on a different drive but i still tend to do it if i can, so if one of the quotes has no mention of water pump as them why !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Herein is the crux of the matter. It requires some small understanding of car mechanics to know that there is a relationship between the cam belt and the water pump (and the thermostat) - it's not obvious. To many people the idea of changing a perfectly good clutch at the same time as a gearbox seems overkill. A good garage would say that once you have the cylinder head off to replace a gasket, you may as well replace the valves and so on. If both front tyre have 4mm of tread and one gets puncture, you should replace both.
Originally Posted by Tony Roe
The problem is that many people never even lift the bonnet on their car and know little or nothing about what goes on under there. Modern cars are so complex on the one hand, and so electronically monitored on the other, that the driver learns to rely on the computer display to tell what is happening. When a mechanic tells them that they may as well replace a part just because it's handy, they think they are just being conned.
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